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Thread: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Posted by estouxim Feb 09

    From what I have been seeing the spin on msm has shifted from "food riots" to "government corruption".

    The Fateful Geological Prize Called Haiti by F. William Engdahl is revealing.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Xray posted Feb 09

    think the Americans are right to deploy their military for this. they have a vast capability and this is a very positive way to use it. Sure its messy, mistakes will be made and its easy find fault, but far better that than them all sitting on a ship off the coast thinking about helping.

    The American military like any weapon or resource is not evil in itself, it is how it is used that can be evil. They simply obey their political masters. I think this is a brave and honourable use of this resource.

    Why in the name of god would anybody want to take over haiti. Frankly if I were Haitian I would be praying for the USA to take over. In reality they will bore of the place in a few weeks and leave then to it.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Posted: 09 Feb 2010 11:44 pm Post subject:
    The US has invaded Haiti, and occupied it, many times. Why do big powers concern themselves with the islands off their shores ?

    Cuba missile crisis could be one reminder. Why have the English not left Ireland ? The Haitian masses are feared and distrusted. They beat the French, Spanish and British in straight military combat in their time. At this stage when Haiti is pretty well ravaged of most of its timber and topsoil resources, the US fears a mass migration of Haitians to the US and has previously interned the Haitians in Guantanamo to deny them refugee status.

    The US stayed from 1915-1934 and have never really left since.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Estouxim posted

    Xray wrote:Why in the name of god would anybody want to take over haiti. Frankly if I were Haitian I would be praying for the USA to take over. In reality they will bore of the place in a few weeks and leave then to it.

    Why? The article I linked to above explains a lot.
    Quote:Aside from being prone to violent earthquakes, Haiti also happens to lie in a zone that, due to the unusual geographical intersection of its three tectonic plates, might well be straddling one of the world’s largest unexplored zones of oil and gas, as well as of valuable rare strategic minerals.
    Quote:Notably, in 2005, a year after the Bush-Cheney Administration de facto deposed the democratically elected President of Haiti, Jean-Bertrand Aristide [1], a team of geologists from the Institute for Geophysics at the University of Texas began an ambitious and thorough two-phase mapping of all geological data of the Caribbean Basins. The project is due to be completed in 2011. Directed by Dr. Paul Mann, it is called “Caribbean Basins, Tectonics and Hydrocarbons.” It is all about determining as precisely as possible the relation between tectonic plates in the Caribbean and the potential for hydrocarbons—oil and gas.
    Notably, the sponsors of the multi-million dollar research project under Mann are the world’s largest oil companies, including Chevron, ExxonMobil, the Anglo-Dutch Shell and BHP Billiton. [2] Curiously enough, the project is the first comprehensive geological mapping of a region that, one would have thought, would have been a priority decades ago for the US oil majors. Given the immense, existing oil production off Mexico, Louisiana, and the entire Caribbean, as well as its proximity to the United States – not to mention the US focus on its own energy security – it is surprising that the region had not been mapped earlier. Now it emerges that major oil companies were at least generally aware of the huge oil potential of the region long ago, but apparently decided to keep it quiet.
    Quote:Evidence that the US Administration may well have more in mind for Haiti than the improvement of the lot of the devastated Haitian people can be found in nearby waters off Cuba, directly across from Port-au-Prince. In October 2008 a consortium of oil companies led by Spain’s Repsol, together with Cuba’s state oil company, Cubapetroleo, announced discovery of one of the world’s largest oilfields in the deep water off Cuba. It is what oil geologists call a ‘Super-giant’ field. Estimates are that the Cuban field contains as much as 20 billion barrels of oil, making it the twelfth Super-giant oilfield discovered since 1996. The discovery also likely makes Cuba a new high-priority target for Pentagon destabilization and other nasty operations.

    On Sunday Al-Jazeera reported that distribution of food was suspended after the benefactors found that some people were holding tickets of a diferent colour than those distributed. The suspension affected thousands of people. I suppose they are now brainstorming in some air conditioned tent behind barbed wire in the airport figuring out a way to make said tickets uncounterfeitable.

    There is no Nation that gained so much following the Haitian revolution as the USA. The Louisiana Purchase was a direct consequence of Napolean's defeat in the island. The territories that were traded in that ocasion represent nearly 30% of it's actual area. For that alone they should be forever thankfull to the Haitian. History shows us how they express that gratitude.

    The US is there to stay. The means involved are indicative of that intention, as is the recurrent spin on the media.
    It will be interesting to see what steps will be taken to set up a new colonial administration.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Xray posted

    Lets get real, if there is oil and gas in the area US oil companies will be the ones getting it anyway. They dont need to invade for that. For god sake look at our gas. We are a first world wealthy country that is powerful for its size and we had to hand over the goodies immediately to the UK.

    I honestly think the best thing Haiti could do is accept american largesse, become a low cost exprted into the USA under favourable trade deals and build a life for people.

    We too could be sitting in the 19th century on our high horse refusing to dirty our hands with american or british money. It makes a good pub song, but we would be singing it in an Irish pub abroad.

    Why not let the americans take the oil and gas for a good deal in return?
    We gave a lot of fish to the EU to join, but we never would have caught them ourselves. The haitians are never going to drill an oil well or feed their people without help. That might be cruel, but it is true.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    estouxim posted -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xray
    Lets get real, if there is oil and gas in the area US oil companies will be the ones getting it anyway. They dont need to invade for that.
    Well, I double checked reality. And reality says that the overwhelming majority of Haitians voted for a man that wants the resources of the land to be used in the benefit of the citizens of the land. That man, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, as been removed from power by american military intervention. He was literally kidnaped from the now ruined presidential palace and flown to the Central African Republic. He is now in South Africa, banned from returning home, his followers banned from participating in the political process. They are still the majority and would easily win any election. That's one of the reasons.
    A little more Engdahl:
    No doubt to the dismay of Washington, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev flew to Havana one month after the Cuban giant oil find to sign an agreement with acting-President Raul Castro for Russian oil companies to explore and develop Cuban oil. [3]
    Medvedev’s Russia-Cuba oil agreements came only a week after the visit of Chinese President Hu Jintao to meet the recuperating Fidel Castro and his brother Raul. The Chinese President signed an agreement to modernize Cuban ports and discussed Chinese purchase of Cuban raw materials. No doubt the mammoth new Cuban oil discovery was high on the Chinese agenda with Cuba. [4] On November 5, 2008, just prior to the Chinese President’s trip to Cuba and other Latin American countries, the Chinese government issued their first ever policy paper on the future of China’s relations with Latin America and Caribbean nations, elevating these bilateral relations to a new level of strategic importance. [5]
    In the real world, today, there are alternatives to american oil giants, even at the US doorstep. They are allready present in the backyard, in Venezuela, Equador, Bolivia, Brasil. It is not, as you assume, an inevitability of fate. Rather, it is to assure that they keep that access, on their terms, that intervention is necessary and that all oportunities should be grabbed, particularly if they come prior to potentially adverse politicall events such as elections. Parliamentary elections were schedulled for this month, I haven't seen a printed word about what will happen to them. Presidential elections are schedulled for the end of the year.
    Speaking of largesse, Haitians have been enjoying US largesse since at least 1915. They allready are a low cost exporter to the US. To the detriment of their agricultural self-suficiency that was destroyed in that process. And they still are the poorest country of the America's. They think, as their vote as shown that another way is necessary. I happen to agree with that.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by estouxim
    Quote Originally Posted by Xray
    Lets get real, if there is oil and gas in the area US oil companies will be the ones getting it anyway. They dont need to invade for that.
    Well, I double checked reality. And reality says that the overwhelming majority of Haitians voted for a man that wants the resources of the land to be used in the benefit of the citizens of the land. That man, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, as been removed from power by american military intervention. He was literally kidnaped from the now ruined presidential palace and flown to the Central African Republic. He is now in South Africa, banned from returning home, his followers banned from participating in the political process. They are still the majority and would easily win any election. That's one of the reasons.
    A little more Engdahl:
    No doubt to the dismay of Washington, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev flew to Havana one month after the Cuban giant oil find to sign an agreement with acting-President Raul Castro for Russian oil companies to explore and develop Cuban oil. [3]
    Medvedev’s Russia-Cuba oil agreements came only a week after the visit of Chinese President Hu Jintao to meet the recuperating Fidel Castro and his brother Raul. The Chinese President signed an agreement to modernize Cuban ports and discussed Chinese purchase of Cuban raw materials. No doubt the mammoth new Cuban oil discovery was high on the Chinese agenda with Cuba. [4] On November 5, 2008, just prior to the Chinese President’s trip to Cuba and other Latin American countries, the Chinese government issued their first ever policy paper on the future of China’s relations with Latin America and Caribbean nations, elevating these bilateral relations to a new level of strategic importance. [5]
    In the real world, today, there are alternatives to american oil giants, even at the US doorstep. They are allready present in the backyard, in Venezuela, Equador, Bolivia, Brasil. It is not, as you assume, an inevitability of fate. Rather, it is to assure that they keep that access, on their terms, that intervention is necessary and that all oportunities should be grabbed, particularly if they come prior to potentially adverse politicall events such as elections. Parliamentary elections were schedulled for this month, I haven't seen a printed word about what will happen to them. Presidential elections are schedulled for the end of the year.
    Speaking of largesse, Haitians have been enjoying US largesse since at least 1915. They allready are a low cost exporter to the US. To the detriment of their agricultural self-suficiency that was destroyed in that process. And they still are the poorest country of the America's. They think, as their vote as shown that another way is necessary. I happen to agree with that.
    That would be nice, but it is not going to happen. What might happen is that someone like clinton in the USA might be able to improve their lot over the next few years. Even that is a long shot though. Haiti like many third world countries has been totally raped by the powerful states, but becoming Cuba mark two at this stage is not the answer. It wont be long until Cuba is playing exactly the same game themselves.
    I could not see the americans allowing anyone else have the use of the oil in that area. They will happily pay the haitians for using it, I would suggest they accept and do the best deal possible. I would rather americans with helicopters were flying over with dinners and water rather than the alternative.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    estouxim posted

    Xray wrote:That would be nice, but it is not going to happen. What might happen is that someone like clinton in the USA might be able to improve their lot over the next few years. Even that is a long shot though. Haiti like many third world countries has been totally raped by the powerful states, but becoming Cuba mark two at this stage is not the answer. It wont be long until Cuba is playing exactly the same game themselves.
    I could not see the americans allowing anyone else have the use of the oil in that area. They will happily pay the haitians for using it, I would suggest they accept and do the best deal possible. I would rather americans helicopters were flying over with dinners and water than the alternative.

    Well, if you look at the last decade in Latin America I think you will find that the Cuban alternative is becoming not only increasingly popular but furthermore possible. The shift to the left is a reality and the Latin American left reclaims and reviews itself on the Cuban model. In spite of the allmost absolute control of mass media by the oligarchies what we see is a very diferent picture than our western media driven elections. There was a picture of a demonstration in Brasil I stumbled upon once where you could see an hand written banner saying "your newspapers are what we use to wipe our asses with."

    Therefore I wouldn't discard the Cuba# so lightly, it would only follow the path Venezuela, Equador, Bolivia, Nicaragua are allready engaged in. I don't see why, if the democratic process is allowed to proceed, that would not be a successfull option for Haiti. The troops are there precisely to prevent that.

    As for the capacity of the Yankees to preserve their backyard, Helsinki, free trade and the Asian wars have very much destroyed it. South America is increasingly turning to the other shore of the Pacific in detriment of their traditional European and North American trade.[/u]
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    The threads on Haiti were started on Tok and interrupted by the move here: I've brought them here because none of the problems have gone away.
    This blog gives some update on how things are going for Haiti.

    http://haitianpoliticsforum.blogspot.com/

    It was fitting that the March 31st "International Donors Conference Towards a New Future for Haiti" was held in the Trusteeship Council at the United Nations headquarters in New York. At the event, Haitian President René Préval in effect turned over the keys to Haiti to a consortium of foreign banks and governments, which will decide how (to use the conference's principal slogan) to "build back better" the country devastated by the Jan. 12 earthquake.

    This "better" Haiti envisions some 25,000 farmers providing Coca-Cola with mangos for a new Odwalla brand drink, 100,000 workers assembling clothing and electronics for the U.S. market in sweatshops under HOPE II legislation, and thousands more finding jobs as guides, waiters, cleaners and drivers when Haiti becomes a new tourist destination.

    "Haiti could be the first all-wireless nation in the Caribbean," gushed UN Special Envoy to Haiti Bill Clinton, who along with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, led the day-long meeting of over 150 nations and international institutions. Clinton got the idea for a "wireless nation," not surprisingly, from Brad Horwitz, the CEO of Trilogy, the parent company of Voilà, Haiti's second largest cell-phone network.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Fox News reports now that most of the UN's very large Haiti budget is going on its own staff.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04...et-goes-staff/
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    6 months since the earthquake, so I'm bumping our Haiti threads that were moved over from Tok. This one reads a bit oddly, as I seem to have left some names of posters out and appear to be talking to myself .

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Things are not good in Haiti - from programmes I've watched on tv, there's been very little progress on rebuilding and a lot of people are still in very inadquate camps.

    Cholera is bad news.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking13.html

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    http://www.undispatch.com/why-cholera-in-haiti-why-now

    Why is there cholera in Haiti now ?

    Melinda Miles, Director of Let Haiti Live, expressed her frustration to UN Dispatch today, “Considering that an outbreak of this nature was predicted nine months ago, it is absolutely stunning that so little was in place to prepare for it.”
    She also fears for the future impact of the outbreak “The potential impact of cholera in the city of Port-au-Prince is a terrifying vision – in addition to the more than one million people living in official camps, many others are living in tents on side streets and in their yards, and very few have access to potable water or sanitary facilities. It is certain that many unnecessary deaths will be the result of poor planning and slow response.”
    We’ll know very soon if this is an outbreak or an epidemic. Either way, it’s the result of slow earthquake response, and children are going to suffer the most.

    A dysfunctional puppet Government and a US military intervention designed for social control not reconstruction, have left the Haitian population in a desperately vulnerable situation.

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    Channel4 is reporting demonstrations by Haitians against UN troops who they say brought cholera into the country. The UN is apparently not denying it.

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    Default Re: The Militarisation of Emergency Aid to Haiti - Is it a Humanitarian Operation or an Invasion ?

    A lot of people are living in tents and shacks and a severe storm is approaching.

    http://reut.rs/a908Gn

    The Haitian situation somehow looks almost genocidal.

    Angry earthquake survivors in Haiti disrupted an attempted evacuation on Thursday of a resettlement camp as Tropical Storm Tomas bore down on the poor Caribbean country already reeling from a cholera epidemic and destruction from the quake.

    Tomas was expected to hit Haiti on Thursday night, battering the stark and largely deforested land with gusting wind, surging waves and torrential rains of up to 10 or 15 inches in some areas.

    President Rene Preval went on national radio to urge citizens to take precautions and follow evacuation recommendations. "Protect your lives," he said.

    An effort to move some 2,000 people from Corail, an exposed camp outside Port-au-Prince set up by the United Nations and aid groups to resettle homeless quake survivors, was obstructed by camp dwellers worried that authorities were trying to permanently move them out.

    More than 100 yelling youths broke tables set up by aid workers to process the evacuees from the tent and tarpaulin camp of some 7,700 people located at the base of several bare hills outside of the Haitian capital.

    Aid workers say the camp's location at the confluence of several streams makes it particularly vulnerable to flooding.

    "We are upset because they have not told us where we are going," said Domarcand Fenel, the head of a committee of camp residents. "People believe they want to expel us."

    About 1.3 million survivors of the January 12 quake that killed more than a quarter of a million people in the Western Hemisphere's poorest nation are still living in makeshift camps crammed into open spaces in the capital.

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