The Labour Party in Government

[DCon]

Ministers and Minister of State also avail of generous severance payments if they are demoted after only two years service. ... is that correct?

I believe that is why the Greens had planned to play musical chairs with the Minister of State gigs. Get everyone a nice pension

[unspecific]

There should be a respectable presence demonstrating at the Labour Conference on Saturday, consisting mainly of the Campaign Against Household & Water Taxes. Galway ULA will also be hosting an "Alternative" conference on Friday and Saturday in the Harbour Hotel.

The Labour leadership will not be let get away with what they have done.

[Holly]

Labour has imploded and its supporters at the last election will vote United Left Alliance or Sinn Féin next time 'round.

[Cato]

Labour has imploded and its supporters at the last election will vote United Left Alliance or Sinn Féin next time 'round.

That's not what the polling shows. Labour's support since the election has leaked to FG and not to the ULA or SF.

[Holly]

That's not what the polling shows. Labour's support since the election has leaked to FG and not to the ULA or SF.

If this is what a poll is claiming it is manifestly false. No traditional Labour supporter would ever vote Finne Gwael.
Perhaps you could post the link to these polls?

[riposte]

That's not what the polling shows. Labour's support since the election has leaked to FG and not to the ULA or SF.

Yeah ..that makes sense Cato ... Fine Gael are further to the left than Labour:...

[Baron von Biffo]

What would you have us do? Leave government in the hands of FG? Call an election and have a coalition of FG and FF. Or one with SF in it which would do exactly the same IMOP.

How would that be any worse? For that matter, how would anyone notice that Lab had left?

Burton never misses a chance to put the boot into the poor. She and Howlin are fighting for the medal for being the most right wing cabinet minister. Harte in Donegal has attacked SW recipients more rabidly than any FGer.

If anything, there might be a slight improvement for people living beyond the M50 with the opening up of 3 cabinet seats and the chance that they might go to TDs from outside the capital.

Or should we have avoided government ?

Yes.

When the Lab negotiators failed to get Finance (and no, Howlin's Dept. of Administrative Affairs isn't Finance) It was clear that they wouldn't be entering government as equals. You would have had more power had you offered FG a Tallaght style, Confidence and Supply deal.

More power but less glory for the oldies and it appears that the latter was the primary consideration.

[Greengoddess]

How would that be any worse? For that matter, how would anyone notice that Lab had left?

Burton never misses a chance to put the boot into the poor. She and Howlin are fighting for the medal for being the most right wing cabinet minister. Harte in Donegal has attacked SW recipients more rabidly than any FGer.

If anything, there might be a slight improvement for people living beyond the M50 with the opening up of 3 cabinet seats and the chance that they might go to TDs from outside the capital.



Yes.

When the Lab negotiators failed to get Finance (and no, Howlin's Dept. of Administrative Affairs isn't Finance) It was clear that they wouldn't be entering government as equals. You would have had more power had you offered FG a Tallaght style, Confidence and Supply deal.

More power but less glory for the oldies and it appears that the latter was the primary consideration.

You may be right. However looking at it from a European birds eye view, I have seen many governments fall, others take their place and continueing the same policies. We would certainly have serious unrest here if that were to happen. Which is why I believe that an end has to occur to our bank debt which may involve us negotiating with serious intent. Or " unilaterally" as Mathews puts it. I seem to have something in common with him even though we have never met!

[unspecific]

You may be right. However looking at it from a European birds eye view, I have seen many governments fall, others take their place and continueing the same policies. We would certainly have serious unrest here if that were to happen. Which is why I believe that an end has to occur to our bank debt which may involve us negotiating with serious intent. Or " unilaterally" as Mathews puts it. I seem to have something in common with him even though we have never met!

If you believe your seat is gone, can we ask that you take advantage of that liberation and use your position to campaign against what is being done to people by the government? If anything you'd be rewarded with holding your seat next time around?

[Greengoddess]

If you believe your seat is gone, can we ask that you take advantage of that liberation and use your position to campaign against what is being done to people by the government? If anything you'd be rewarded with holding your seat next time around?

That would be my intention, but if you mean by next time around, 2019, I would have to concentrate on seeking alternative employment since I have no pension until I am 63. And then 1000 a month. It is difficult to think beyond that . Scary but no different then lots of us these days.
It is also unclear at this point what I can actually DO. I probably would need leadership skills in a form new to me for a start. Instinct tells me that change will come when enough Tds come to see the same thing . What I fear is that it may come too late for the people. Particularly with regard to the Troika. However I am a believer in words being like seeds that germinate in ways that you can't predict so I keep on saying things!

[Baron von Biffo]

This might happen after full Ministerial pensions are accrued, as it did with the Greens.

But not before. Tongues will be held and lips bitten until the pensions are in the bank

If the Greens were just interested in pensions they would have collapsed the Cowen government but they didn't, or at least not intentionally. They withdrew from government but continued to support the minority FF administration.

This fixation with pensions is misguided. Most politicians who get to cabinet would be able to earn far higher salaries, perks and pensions in the private sector. And they wouldn't have to put up with all the sh!te that a political career entails.

[Baron von Biffo]

You may be right. However looking at it from a European birds eye view, I have seen many governments fall, others take their place and continueing the same policies. We would certainly have serious unrest here if that were to happen. Which is why I believe that an end has to occur to our bank debt which may involve us negotiating with serious intent. Or " unilaterally" as Mathews puts it. I seem to have something in common with him even though we have never met!

We only have to look North to see that SF in government would impose all the measures here that they now oppose. As for the Alphabet Soup - If by some amazing chance they had a majority in the next Dail, they wouldn't be able to form a government because they're not capable of working with others on an equal basis.

[Slim Buddha]

This fixation with pensions is misguided. Most politicians who get to cabinet would be able to earn far higher salaries, perks and pensions in the private sector. And they wouldn't have to put up with all the sh!te that a political career entails.

I think that a few in this Cabinet and most of the last Cabinet would struggle to get any kind of remunerable position in the private sector.

[Greengoddess]

If the Greens were just interested in pensions they would have collapsed the Cowen government but they didn't, or at least not intentionally. They withdrew from government but continued to support the minority FF administration.

This fixation with pensions is misguided. Most politicians who get to cabinet would be able to earn far higher salaries, perks and pensions in the private sector. And they wouldn't have to put up with all the sh!te that a political career entails.

I actually agree with Baron here. Also the ' new' Ministers would be more afraid of losing their seats then pensions. I can't bear the thought that an entire country could go down the tubes because of Ministerial pensions

[unspecific]

That would be my intention, but if you mean by next time around, 2019, I would have to concentrate on seeking alternative employment since I have no pension until I am 63. And then 1000 a month. It is difficult to think beyond that . Scary but no different then lots of us these days.
It is also unclear at this point what I can actually DO. I probably would need leadership skills in a form new to me for a start. Instinct tells me that change will come when enough Tds come to see the same thing . What I fear is that it may come too late for the people. Particularly with regard to the Troika. However I am a believer in words being like seeds that germinate in ways that you can't predict so I keep on saying things!

What you can do is get involved with the Campaign Against the Household Tax and the Campaign Against the Austerity Treaty. I'm not sure what news you get of these new grassroots campaigns in Brussels, but they are massive and widespread.

Get active, get vociferous. People are not fickle; if they see you running yourself into the ground to defend them(even if you're not successful), you will be rewarded with all the re-elections you desire. That's supposed to be how politics works! That's supposed to be how a Labour Party works especially!