The Labour Party in Government

**Apjp** · 10-04-2012, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Richardbouvet

Nessa speaks for many members, myself included. Economically, this is a FG government.

For me there are 2 deal-breakers which have not yet been acted on. One is collective bargaining rights, the other is a single-tier health service. If the govt gets these 2 things I am willing to take some stick from the ULA and others for being in government. If they do not happen, then Labour must pull out.

As for the coming Galway conference, I am concerned that the ULA's opportunist anti-Labour event, plus household tax demos outside our conference, will drive Labour waverers into the arms of the leadership. That of course is precisely what the ULA wants.

Collective bargaining rights? Sorry but what do you mean?

**Apjp** · 10-04-2012, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Greengoddess

Hi guys! ( gender neutral ) just off flight and saw thread open. Look, I am separate from the power structure in the Party, no threat to leader or minister alike. I have nothing to lose. Including my seat, which is probably gone. That leaves a certain freedom. Richard is right about policy. I think we need some 'red lines'. Far from promoting instability they would remove the possibility of a bottomless pit of policies which no decent social democrat would stand by. It would be at this point that we get serious with the Troika. And this is where Labour must assert itself. Fine Gael are members of the EPP. The SAME Party as Merkel. Go figure. However, I alone can not do much. it will require the Party leadership in the collective noun form, to take this seriously. They may. Eventually. But will it be too late?

My advice? Get half your party to remember their country and get the hell out of govt. and cut loose the elite leadership. The least you could do is sound a few ructions by seeing if a few others would walk out on the govt. with you. Politicially, it's also the only chance most of you have of being re-elected so it's in your own interest.

Mind you even if you were serious, the mentality of others when it comes to standing up to the Labour leadership(or the Irish mentality of standing up to anyone and resisting scaremongering) shouldn't be underestimated.

**Slim Buddha** · 10-04-2012, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Apjp

My advice? Get half your party to remember their country and get the hell out of govt. and cut loose the elite leadership. The least you could do is sound a few ructions by seeing if a few others would walk out on the govt. with you. Politicially, it's also the only chance most of you have of being re-elected so it's in your own interest.

Mind you even if you were serious, the mentality of others when it comes to standing up to the Labour leadership(or the Irish mentality of standing up to anyone and resisting scaremongering) shouldn't be underestimated.

Why only half? While we may be going through an unprecedented economic crisis, there is no real excuse for Labour in becoming a willing doormat for the unquestioning implementation of FG economic policy. In such a crisis, one would think a political party assured of its own principles would be even more determined to see those policies implemented to the maximum possible effect.

However, Labour are not so assured, are they?

**Richardbouvet** · 10-04-2012, 10:17 AM

Apjp, I am a bit surprised you have not heard of collective bargaining rights. That would be the requirement for employers to deal with the unions where the workforce desire it. It is in the programme for govt but nothing has been done about it yet. The Labour membership will be demanding action on this.

**Greengoddess** · 10-04-2012, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Richardbouvet

Apjp, I am a bit surprised you have not heard of collective bargaining rights. That would be the requirement for employers to deal with the unions where the workforce desire it. It is in the programme for govt but nothing has been done about it yet. The Labour membership will be demanding action on this.

Eamon Gilmore has assured me that this will be progressed. I was concerned because Richard Bruton has been telling employers it will not happen. Apparently this is just optics.....
Apparently.

**disability student** · 10-04-2012, 12:09 PM

Does their left hand know what their right hand is doing re to labour party?

As far as i'm concerned, Labour are damaged goods and discredited. No amount of publicity nor airing their problems in public would restore their image and reputation. They are in tatters and fast becoming Green party MARK 2. They are seen as right wing party than a left wing party as the damage is done.

I can't see labour party regaining all or most of tne seat that they have now. It would be in the region of five seat or less. They are due for a huge hammering just like FF received their bloody noses in the last election. I have no sympathies for them as they have shot themselves in their foot.

**Greengoddess** · 10-04-2012, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by disability student

Does their left hand know what their right hand is doing re to labour party?

As far as i'm concerned, Labour are damaged goods and discredited. No amount of publicity nor airing their problems in public would restore their image and reputation. They are in tatters and fast becoming Green party MARK 2. They are seen as right wing party than a left wing party as the damage is done.

I can't see labour party regaining all or most of tne seat that they have now. It would be in the region of five seat or less. They are due for a huge hammering just like FF received their bloody noses in the last election. I have no sympathies for them as they have shot themselves in their foot.

What would you have us do? Leave government in the hands of FG? Call an election and have a coalition of FG and FF. Or one with SF in it which would do exactly the same IMOP. Or should we have avoided government ?

**Sam Lord** · 10-04-2012, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Greengoddess

What would you have us do? Leave government in the hands of FG? Call an election and have a coalition of FG and FF. Or one with SF in it which would do exactly the same IMOP. Or should we have avoided government ?

Nothing can ever be done in Ireland but have more of the same. We appreciate that.

**Greengoddess** · 10-04-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sam Lord

Nothing can ever be done in Ireland but have more of the same. We appreciate that.

So we all give up?

**DCon** · 10-04-2012, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Greengoddess

What would you have us do? Leave government in the hands of FG? Call an election and have a coalition of FG and FF.

This might happen after full Ministerial pensions are accrued, as it did with the Greens.

But not before. Tongues will be held and lips bitten until the pensions are in the bank

**Sam Lord** · 10-04-2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Greengoddess

So we all give up?

No. Some of us draw down big salaries for supporting more of the same. But of course there is no alternative. "If we didn't do it someone else would..."

**disability student** · 10-04-2012, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by DCon

This might happen after full Ministerial pensions are accrued, as it did with the Greens.

But not before. Tongues will be held and lips bitten until the pensions are in the bank

+100 hence the greater need for total overhaul of our political system including perks & pensions so forth.

Just wondering, how long would they have to wait for their pensions be qualified?

**Cato** · 10-04-2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Greengoddess

Hi guys! ( gender neutral ) just off flight and saw thread open. Look, I am separate from the power structure in the Party, no threat to leader or minister alike. I have nothing to lose. Including my seat, which is probably gone. That leaves a certain freedom. Richard is right about policy. I think we need some 'red lines'. Far from promoting instability they would remove the possibility of a bottomless pit of policies which no decent social democrat would stand by. It would be at this point that we get serious with the Troika. And this is where Labour must assert itself. Fine Gael are members of the EPP. The SAME Party as Merkel. Go figure. However, I alone can not do much. it will require the Party leadership in the collective noun form, to take this seriously. They may. Eventually. But will it be too late?

Do you see any chance of some change occurring at the Conference next weekend? The leadership need to be rattled somehow. Anything that might achieve that?

I see that O'Shea, the current Chair of the party, is promising Stability and Continuity and boasts that there has been no dissent in the party during his time in the Chair.

**disability student** · 10-04-2012, 02:33 PM

Re Minister's pensions,The qualification period for Ministerial pensions is merely two years in office and is payable from the age of 55. Ministers and Minister of State also avail of generous severance payments if they are demoted after only two years service. ... is that correct?

I had to look up the legalisation in relation to pensions as it refers back to 1922 (which is outdated by now) as it looks that it need a total revamp or alternatively, total overhaul of pensions entitlement by govt ministers to reflect the present/current times that we are now.

Link:http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1938/...038/print.html

**DCon** · 10-04-2012, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by disability student

+100 hence the greater need for total overhaul of our political system including perks & pensions so forth.

Just wondering, how long would they have to wait for their pensions be qualified?

not 100% sure, but the Greens seem to have done enough

Paul Gogarty: €107,703.61 in the first year, €21,985.79 every year thereafter.
John Gormley: €203,392.24 in the first year, €63,652.00 every year thereafter.
Eamon Ryan: €221,283.05 in the first year, €57,410.49 every year thereafter.

http://www.thejournal.ie/government-...n-2011-2011-3/