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Thread: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

  1. #16
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Me too !



    Can anyone help!
    The Returning Officer

    How is it decided who's votes are included in these quotas?
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

  2. #17
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    Seems to me the front runners are reported to be Higgins and Gallagher - so if I vote NO 1 to either of them my other preferences won't come into play until either one is either elected or eliminated .... have I got that right?
    Yes you have it right. This being the presidential election there's only one seat so at any time during the count your paper will either be with the remaining candidate you gave the highest preference to or it will be on the non transferable pile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    If I have that right then my preferences are:

    1. Norris
    2. Higgins
    3 McGuinness
    4 Dana
    5 Davis
    6 Mitchell
    7 Gallagher

    But I'm loath to express a preference for either Mitchell or Gallagher ... I'd much prefer to leave their boxes blank.

    Advice please.
    Leaving the Gallagher and Mitchell boxes blank would only make a difference if the final count was caused by the elimination of the last remaining candidate out of your first 5 preferences. In that case your paper would be marked non-transferable because it had no No.6.

    Looking at the opinion polls it's unlikely that leaving both blank will have any practical effect since Mitchell will probably be eliminated well before the final count.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    There's an 'explanation' here .. but once I go to [ The Quota ] I got lost!
    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Me too !


    Can anyone help!

    The purpose of the quota is to ensure that there can't be more candidates with enough votes to be elected than there are seats to fill.

    The presidential election has only 1 seat so it works out like this

    ((Valid poll / (No. Seats + 1)) +1)


    ((100% / (1 + 1)) + 1)


    = 50% +1

    The quota then is 50% +1 of the vote.

    A candidate can be elected without reaching the quota if (s)he has more votes than the next highest remaining candidate and the votes of all other remaining candidates is less than the difference between them.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    1 McGuinness (Anti Bankster)
    2 Norris (For naming Bondholders but a gobshyte)
    3 Higgins (To bury Fianna Fail)

    So effectively, I am voting for the Workers Party.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Get your votes in!

    Baron, would you be able to do the proportional representation this evening so we can name our winner!
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  6. #21
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    The Returning Officer

    How is it decided who's votes are included in these quotas?
    The first thing that happens at the count is the boxes are checked and opened and the papers are unfolded. This is where the tally-men earn their crust looking at where the votes are going.

    Next the papers are checked for the official stamp and sorted on the basis of No.1s. This gives the total poll and the number of spoiled votes from which the quota is calculated.

    At the end of each count the returning officer invites the candidates or their agents to view the non-transferable votes (and spoiled votes on the first count). Candidates may challenge his/her decision at that point and if the challenge is accepted the paper will be distributed accordingly. If the returning officer rejects the challenge, the paper will be flagged for later consideration (including in the courts) if it could materially affect the outcome of the election.

    If a candidate has reached the quota (s)he is deemed elected at that point.

    If the elected candidate has a surplus large enough to affect the order of election or elimination of remaining candidates then the next count will be the transfer of his/her surplus.

    For candidates elected on the first count their surplus is calculated by counting all of their No.2s and allocating them on a pro rata basis to the other candidates. If a paper has no second preference or the second preference can't be determined that paper is deemed non-transferable.

    This isn't just an arithmetic exercise. The papers are physically moved from the pile belonging to the elected candidate and added to the piles belonging to the candidates who received the No.2s.

    Great care is taken to ensure that the physical ordering of the bundles of votes is not altered at any time during the count. This is done so that if there's a recount, papers are counted exactly as they were the first time to eliminate any randomness from recounts.

    Where a candidate is elected on the second or subsequent count, any surplus to be distributed is taken from the physical parcel(s) of votes that put the candidate over the quota.

    Where a candidate is eliminated, his/her votes are distributed on the basis of the highest preference for a candidate not already elected or eliminated.

    I used to have a word document that I downloaded from the Dept. of the Environment giving the full legal regulations but I can't find it now. The best I can do is this link to the locals in Donegal.

    For anyone interested in how the system works I'd recommend going to a count. You can apply to the returning officer for a ticket once the election has been called. Candidates get priority but there's usually no problem getting one. It's easier to get a feel for the process at the locals as there are fewer votes and you have a better chance of getting party hacks to talk you through what's going on.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    1. Higgins (Purely to stop Gallagher)
    2. McGuinness (Pointless giving him no. 2 but at least he was the only one at least pretending to be an all Ireland president)

    No one else deserved a vote.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    The first thing that happens at the count is the boxes are checked and opened and the papers are unfolded. This is where the tally-men earn their crust looking at where the votes are going.

    Next the papers are checked for the official stamp and sorted on the basis of No.1s. This gives the total poll and the number of spoiled votes from which the quota is calculated.

    At the end of each count the returning officer invites the candidates or their agents to view the non-transferable votes (and spoiled votes on the first count). Candidates may challenge his/her decision at that point and if the challenge is accepted the paper will be distributed accordingly. If the returning officer rejects the challenge, the paper will be flagged for later consideration (including in the courts) if it could materially affect the outcome of the election.

    If a candidate has reached the quota (s)he is deemed elected at that point.

    If the elected candidate has a surplus large enough to affect the order of election or elimination of remaining candidates then the next count will be the transfer of his/her surplus.

    For candidates elected on the first count their surplus is calculated by counting all of their No.2s and allocating them on a pro rata basis to the other candidates. If a paper has no second preference or the second preference can't be determined that paper is deemed non-transferable.

    This isn't just an arithmetic exercise. The papers are physically moved from the pile belonging to the elected candidate and added to the piles belonging to the candidates who received the No.2s.

    Great care is taken to ensure that the physical ordering of the bundles of votes is not altered at any time during the count. This is done so that if there's a recount, papers are counted exactly as they were the first time to eliminate any randomness from recounts.

    Where a candidate is elected on the second or subsequent count, any surplus to be distributed is taken from the physical parcel(s) of votes that put the candidate over the quota.

    Where a candidate is eliminated, his/her votes are distributed on the basis of the highest preference for a candidate not already elected or eliminated.

    I used to have a word document that I downloaded from the Dept. of the Environment giving the full legal regulations but I can't find it now. The best I can do is this link to the locals in Donegal.

    For anyone interested in how the system works I'd recommend going to a count. You can apply to the returning officer for a ticket once the election has been called. Candidates get priority but there's usually no problem getting one. It's easier to get a feel for the process at the locals as there are fewer votes and you have a better chance of getting party hacks to talk you through what's going on.
    Thanks for that, it makes the process a whole lot clearer. If I was off I would ask could I go and supervise and have a look as it may be better seen in action. Thanks for the info!
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  9. #24
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Thanks for that, it makes the process a whole lot clearer. If I was off I would ask could I go and supervise and have a look as it may be better seen in action. Thanks for the info!
    Never been to a count in a presidential election, but the ones I have attended (General and Local)are painful.
    Don't be duped into thinking you'd be getting to see democracy in action.
    All you get is thumped on the back by party hacks asking "have you got the f&*kin' numbers from (whatever) box?".
    And politicians who are supposedly diametrically opposed giving each other winks and sharing jokes.
    "This isn't working,
    My middle-brow f**ker"

  10. #25
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    I voted around lunchtime. Very quiet, but it always is at this polling station midday. They said there was a 'steady trickle' .

    I took Andrew's strategy to the limit - filled all boxes even though it got very tough between 3 and 6.

    1. Higgins
    2. Norris
    7. Gallagher.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    The way I look at it.

    Anyone voting giving a No 1 to Higgins, or Gallagher, or McGuinness or Norris will have a personal interest in the count beyond the 3rd and 4th count. I expect Dana, Davis, and Mitchel to be eliminated early on ..... I'm dreading that Gallagher will pick up many transfers from Davis and Dana ... just hoping than McGuinness's stunning intervention has stopped the Fianna Fail attempt to occupy the Park in its tracks.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

  12. #27
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by Griska View Post
    Never been to a count in a presidential election, but the ones I have attended (General and Local)are painful.
    Don't be duped into thinking you'd be getting to see democracy in action.
    All you get is thumped on the back by party hacks asking "have you got the f&*kin' numbers from (whatever) box?".
    And politicians who are supposedly diametrically opposed giving each other winks and sharing jokes.
    At least you get to see that the election process is open and transparent. The only bit of the process that in my experience isn't totally visible is the adjudication of spoiled/non-transferable votes. That tends to happen out of earshot of the public which I think shouldn't be the way it's done.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    I am always intrigued by the spoiled votes. I would have thought the process needed to be open to public but I presume they don't want us to see the unseemly rows or get ideas for spoiling votes.

    It seems our good friends the tally men won't be around in numbers tomorrow as the candidates are mostly 'Independent'. No fun in that then.

    Can anyone estimate when a second count might be completed?

  14. #29
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin View Post
    1 McGuinness (Anti Bankster)
    2 Norris (For naming Bondholders but a gobshyte)
    3 Higgins (To bury Fianna Fail)

    So effectively, I am voting for the Workers Party.
    Well if you voted for Mary Robinson you were voting for a joint Worker's Party/ Labor Party candidate. Yea, yea, I know she pi$$ed off before her term was up, but who was to know she would do that.

    My vote; 1) M. D. Higgins. 2) D. Norris No.2 for Norris is pointless, I know, but so is the whole dam thing.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: The proportional representation voting thread - vote in order of your preference

    Any exit polls ?

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