Colm Keena on Bertie Ahern

**Sidewinder** · 11-08-2012, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Slim Buddha

You are a long way from it now, Sidey, and your visits home will be restricted by distance and logistics. However, if you think you are frustrated now, wait for a few years and then go back and see what you find. If you still care, you will be in despair. But then comes peace!

Despite the passionate writing style I find I don't really care anymore, nor am I frustrated

I'm still curious though. The reality of what Irish society and culture actually is, the stark ugly casually-vicious brutality of the system, the pikey thievery at every level, the ramant abuse, psychological, physical and sexual....it's a grim grim place. And once you've looked behind the curtain of false "ah shure aren't we a gas bunch of lads" forced bonhomie and seen Ireland for what it is you'd never want to go back.

I've never seen a decent explanation that seems to explain it all though. You and the Cap'n both make valid, logical points but they both still seem....incomplete. Not the full picture. I just always feel like I'm missing something, something obvious, that explains why Ireland is the way it is. I've had similar conversations recently with old friends who got out years ago, they all eventually reached the conclusion there was no point in trying to figure it out and just got on with their new lives with a roll of the eyes and a shrug. But a few of them certainly, at least in the early years, did still try to puzzle through the mystery, without success.

Maybe there is no straightforward answer. Maybe the place is just a dysfunctional mess on every level. But then that begs the question....who are we, any of us? Of the learned cultural identity, mores and so on, of the opinions and beliefs we consider our own, how many actually have any validity, and which ones are just adapted coping mechanisms to deal with the endless trauma of a sick society? And if a coping mechanism, should it be retained after you leave or will it just hold you back in a less-messed-up society?

Yeah. I think too much LOL.

**Captain Con O'Sullivan** · 11-08-2012, 10:06 AM

We are a society that shows all the signs of being a psychologically abused child. That just about sums it up.

We have learned to be evasive and cling only to our original society and culture by some very thin strands that can only be seen at its finest whenever a neighbour is in trouble or where there is an opportunity to do the finer thing.

We have learned to be fearful of authority because of two great cultural invasions and have retreated into a shell of masking ourselves by way of imitating what we think is clever in other societies.

We'll not get peace in this regard until we have had an open and honest conversation not about how we fit in with others but who we are in reality.

There is a form of psychological denial in Ireland and the Irish that can be seen also in othe cultures who have suffered a form of shock treatment over an extended period.

**Slim Buddha** · 11-08-2012, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

Despite the passionate writing style I find I don't really care anymore, nor am I frustrated

I'm still curious though. The reality of what Irish society and culture actually is, the stark ugly casually-vicious brutality of the system, the pikey thievery at every level, the ramant abuse, psychological, physical and sexual....it's a grim grim place. And once you've looked behind the curtain of false "ah shure aren't we a gas bunch of lads" forced bonhomie and seen Ireland for what it is you'd never want to go back.

I've never seen a decent explanation that seems to explain it all though. You and the Cap'n both make valid, logical points but they both still seem....incomplete. Not the full picture. I just always feel like I'm missing something, something obvious, that explains why Ireland is the way it is. I've had similar conversations recently with old friends who got out years ago, they all eventually reached the conclusion there was no point in trying to figure it out and just got on with their new lives with a roll of the eyes and a shrug. But a few of them certainly, at least in the early years, did still try to puzzle through the mystery, without success.

Maybe there is no straightforward answer. Maybe the place is just a dysfunctional mess on every level. But then that begs the question....who are we, any of us? Of the learned cultural identity, mores and so on, of the opinions and beliefs we consider our own, how many actually have any validity, and which ones are just adapted coping mechanisms to deal with the endless trauma of a sick society? And if a coping mechanism, should it be retained after you leave or will it just hold you back in a less-messed-up society?

Yeah. I think too much LOL.

Take the levels that affect people on a daily basis,

Taxation. The PAYE sector is consistently raped for tax, the wealthy have always sufficient loopholes to escape proper taxation, the professional classes make their own arrangements, and corporations do the same. If you are salaried, waged or paying PAYE in whatever form, you are the turkey for whom every day is Christmas Day.

The Law/Judiciary. We inheritedand unwieldy, creaking and frnakly odd system of law from the British and superimposed a theocratic constitution on top of it. Our laws on corruption and alcohol licencing are, in effect, dating from the time the colonial power was in control. The bizarre decisions of some judges provoke mild outrage for a few days but fade away. The fact is that our judicial system, like so much else, is not fit for purpose.

Policing. Like so much else in Ireland, political interference is never far away from this area of public life. To the point, I would suggest, that law enforcement is encouraged to be selective. Enforcement against the poorer sections of society is never in short supply but try to enforce the law in the area of white collar crime and we see something different. A lot of white collar crime has been legislated away, or indeed enabled specifically by act of parliament. In the US, the law is appliled across all sections of society. Celebrity tax dodgers like Martha Stewart and Leona Helmsley get the full force of the law applied to them. Not in Ireland.

Local government. This basically is a castrated series of eunuchs, dependent of the largesse of Phil Hogan. A mess and a by word for forty years of planning corruption, mainly by Fianna Fail criminals.

Basically, there is no faith anymore in the institutions of state. Constantly undermined by corrupt politicians, the belief in and support for basic foundation istitutions of state are ebbing away alarmingly fast. The church is becoming completely Irrelevant, respect for the law among the middle classes, usually a strong source of support for it, is melting fast and the reputation of politics and the probity of banks is in the sewer.

I have a nephew. He has his last year at university coming up. As soon as he is qualified he is off. He will do his masters abroad, probably in a foreign language. He has become fanatically single-minded about this because, as he put it, "I can't be doing with cowboys and criminals in charge of the place".