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Thread: Is Capitalism Finished?

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Quote Originally Posted by unspecific715 View Post
    Well the bureaucracy doesn't decide(only implement), that's the competence of lobbying organisations. Politicians are PR for said decisions. The current system is the worst of all worlds.

    Imagine a scenario where peoples' votes decide and we replace the "representative" model of capitalist bureaucracy.
    Then media will decide everything
    Imagine scenario when people will vote for mass redundancies and pay cuts in public sector in order to keep taxes and you will see that bureaucracy never will allow it

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Quote Originally Posted by bormotello View Post
    Then media will decide everything
    Imagine scenario when people will vote for mass redundancies and pay cuts in public sector in order to keep taxes and you will see that bureaucracy never will allow it
    The media always reflects "the dominant ideology."

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Capitalism is done. It undermines it's own market. To maximise profits and compete with other capitalists it has to drive down wages. So people are not able to buy the stuff produced. It's lifespan has been artifically extended through the use of credit. But all those chickens are coming home to roost now. And the credit cards the world over are maxed out.

    The major problem at the moment to my mind has been provided by the restoration of capitalism in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe some decades ago. The huge significance of this has not really impacted on me until now. The "collapse of communism" has left people actually believing what Fukuyama proclaimed to be the case .. the capitalism is the end of history. People can see no way forward and literally anything can now emerge. Fascism .. armageddon ...
    Its the vaccum that is left by the end of capitalism that is going to be worrying. Here in Irelnad we are going to get Shinners and a coalition of far right parties in the mix and nothing in between I feel.
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Its the vaccum that is left by the end of capitalism that is going to be worrying. Here in Irelnad we are going to get Shinners and a coalition of far right parties in the mix and nothing in between I feel.
    One wonders these days if representative/parliamentary parties as we know them are the future?
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Quote Originally Posted by unspecific715 View Post
    One wonders these days if representative/parliamentary parties as we know them are the future?
    Well it begs the question, can they be? Labour and FG could implode. Never hear a peep outta Inda!
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Interesting read (and blog).

    http://globalsociology.com/2011/10/2...rasitic-logic/

    “The news of capitalism’s demise is (to borrow from Mark Twain) somewhat exaggerated. Capitalism has an inbuilt wondrous capacity of resurrection and regeneration; though this is capacity of a kind shared with parasites – organisms that feed on other organisms, belonging to other species. After a complete or near-complete exhaustion of one host organism, a parasite tends and manages to find another, that would supply it with life juices for a successive, albeit also limited, stretch of time.

    A hundred years ago Rosa Luxemburg grasped that secret of the eerie, phoenix-like ability of capitalism to rise, repeatedly, from the ashes; an ability that leaves behind a track of devastation – the history of capitalism is marked by the graves of living organisms sucked of their life juices to exhaustion. Luxemburg, however, confined the set of organisms, lined up for the outstanding visits of the parasite, to “pre-capitalist economies” – whose number was limited and steadily shrinking under the impact of the ongoing imperialist expansion.

    With each successive visit, another one of those remaining “virgin lands” was converted into a grazing field for capitalist exploitation, and therefore sooner rather than later made unfit for the needs of capitalist “extended reproduction” since no longer promising profits such an expansion required. Thinking along these lines (a fully understandable inclination, given the mostly territorial, extensive rather than intensive, lateral rather than vertical, nature of that expansion 100 years ago), Luxemburg could not but anticipate the natural limits to the conceivable duration of the capitalist system: once all “virgin lands” of the globe are conquered and drawn into the treadmill of capitalist recycling, the absence of new lands for exploitation will portend and eventually enforce the collapse of the system. The parasite will die because of the absence of not-yet-exhausted organisms to feed on.

    Today capitalism has already reached the global dimension, or at any rate has come very close to reaching it – a feat that for Luxemburg was still a somewhat distant prospect. Is therefore Luxemburg’s prediction close to fulfilment? I do not think it is. What has happened in the last half a century or so is capitalism learning the previously unknown and unimagined art of producing ever new “virgin lands”, instead of limiting its rapacity to the set of the already existing ones. That new art – made possible by the shift from the “society of producers” to the “society of consumers”, and from the meeting of capital and labour to the meeting of commodity and client as the principal source of “added value” – profit and accumulation consists mostly of the progressive commodification of life functions, market mediation in successive needs’ satisfaction and substituting desire for need in the role of the fly-wheel of the profit-aimed economy.

    The current crisis derives from the exhaustion of an artificially created “virgin land”; one built out of the millions stuck in the “culture of saving books” instead of “culture of credit cards”; in other words, out of the millions of people too shy to spend the yet-unearned money, living on credit, taking loans and paying interest. Exploitation of that particular “virgin land” is now by and large over and it has been left now to the politicians to clean up the debris left by the bankers’ feast; that task has been removed from the realm of bankers’ responsibility into the dustbin of “political problems” and recast belatedly from an economic issue into the question of (to quote the German chancellor, Angela Merkel) “political will”. But one is entitled to surmise that in the offices of capitalism hard labour is focused on constructing new “virgin lands” – though also burdened with the curse of fairly limited life expectancy, given the parasitic nature of capitalism.

    Capitalism proceeds through creative destruction. What is created is capitalism in a “new and improved” form – and what is destroyed is self-sustaining capacity, livelihood and dignity of its innumerable and multiplied “host organisms” into which all of us are drawn/seduced one way or another.”
    It is not entirely hard to see where the new “virgin lands” are: financial products, public education, public finances, and the last few areas not yet ruled by oil and financial capital.
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    financial products, public education, public finances,
    All of the above are now a spectacularly burst bubble.

    and the last few areas not yet ruled by oil and financial capital.
    Capitalism when up against the 0 profit wall has only a few options -

    Push wages and costs (including taxes) down.

    Take out the opposition by loss lead selling - monopolies and near monopolies ( this is now the situation, with about 150 finance entities owning much of the world's wealth)

    Seize resources and/or destroy productive capacity/competition by war.

    Expand geographically to new areas - fast running out of these - not much virgin territory left apart from parts of Africa - and Africa would be run through very quickly - (look at SE Asia), exacerbating over production and then outer space - the moon - mars etc.

    But the pace of globalisation and the expense of space travel, combined with the gargantuan size of of the credit overhang, means that these options are pretty well exhausted.

    If you look at Greece, the figures suggest that the more that wages are cut, and taxes increased, the more that the profitability of capital in Greece declines.

    The idea that capitalism can regenerate endlessly is clearly in terms of historical evolution incorrect. Nothing lasts forever. Hunter gatherer society lasted a very long time but was superceded by feudal, agricultural society which in turn was replaced by industrial society with colonialism and democracies. We now have private profit industrial society that is at the end of its rope and simply not functioning any more. We either replace it with something better, or it will collapse into something very nasty indeed.

    A point of crisis has been reached at which even with capitalist states in control, banks are having to be nationalised and propped up by the public on a universal scale and the issue is now political - so in so far as there is investment, it is increasingly public investment. The question is - who should determine how socialised production is run and its products distributed - the 1% or the 99% of people ? So it's a question of who exerts control over the banks, and whether they are run in the interests of the population as a whole or a small number of massively wealthy individuals.

    Leave it with the 1%, you can be guaranteed protectionism, and wars, with a reduction of society to a barbaric state.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 30-10-2011 at 09:27 AM.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Zizek - the marriage between capitalism and democracy is over -

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...360731764.html

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Has anyone seen this? Don't know how it slipped under my radar

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYFw3O--2R0"]Capitalism Is The Crisis (Full Movie) - YouTube[/ame]
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Zizek - the marriage between capitalism and democracy is over -

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...360731764.html
    Seen as though Zizek has been saying that for years, it's pretty chilling how accurate its turning out.

    The end of the Washington Consensus model of capitalism and onwards to the Chinese model!
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?

    It's just a slight head cold - and a bit of a chest cough. Nothing to worry about. The doctors are attending to it.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Is Capitalism Finished?


    Scared of my Own Thoughts 345
    11 Feb, 2018 in Uncategorized by craig


    In Doha last week I watched on TV an utterly contemptible speech by Theresa May in which she grasped for ideas to shore up the increasingly eroded Establishment control of the political zeitgeist. Yet more pressure would be put on the social media companies to curtail the circulation of unauthorised truths as “fake news”. Disrespectful questioning of the political class will be a new crime of “intimidation of candidates”. The government would look for new ways to boost the unwanted and failing purveyors of the official line by some potential aid to newspapers and their paid liars.

    In short I did not merely disagree with what she was saying, I found it an extraordinary example of Orwellian doublespeak in which she even referenced John Stuart Mill and her commitment to freedom of speech as she outlined plans to restrict it further. I found myself viewing this dull, plodding agent of repression as representing a political philosophy which is completely alien to me.

    I had a similar epiphany the week before watching the gathering at Davos. I have often been sceptical of the philosophy and motivation of the neo-liberal elite, but I have never before looked at them and seen them as the enemy. Yet after the super wealthy were rewarded for the financial collapse of 2008, by the largest diversion of ordinary people’s money to the rich in human history, as bailouts and QE, the steady but unspectacular economic growth of the ensuing decade has resulted in no significant real wage increases for the working person across the entire developed world, while the wealth of the 1% has more than doubled. There has been a curious but matching phenomenon whereby even the “third sector” representatives at Davos – the heads of universities and charities or the senior presenters from the BBC, for example – are themselves on over £300,000 a year and completely divorced from the lifestyle of working people, due to the abandonment of their institutions to corporate philosophy.

    In short, as with Theresa May, I found myself looking at the inhabitants of Davos with utter contempt, as people whose philosophy and lifestyle I detest.

    Then a couple of days ago I watched an uncritical BBC report of alleged chemical weapons attacks in Syria based entirely on film provided by the White Helmets, which plainly had zero evidential value. Given that the origins and motivations of the White Helmets are today known to anyone with an internet connection, the continued retailing of this repetitive propaganda is extraordinary. I felt contempt for the BBC journalists who were retailing it. In the last 24 hours Israel has carried out large scale bombing attacks on Syria which are undeniably illegal, and for once has acknowledged them brazenly. There has been very little media reporting of this. In a two sentence report on BBC News as I type, the second sentence was that the attack followed the downing of an Israel fighter, without mentioning that plane was itself illegally attacking Syria. The Israeli statement was given verbatim and no balancing view from Syria was given.
    I am not comfortable with thoughts of contempt, disgust or hatred towards anyone. I have always held the view that people are entitled to their political views, and having different views to mine in no way makes you a bad person. I have been known to suggest that anyone who has all the same views as me must be in dubious mental health. I have tried to acknowledge common ground with people where it exists – for example I have always admired David Davis’ commitment to civil liberties. It is not the case that some of my best friends are Tories, but I do have Tory friends.

    I was for most of my working life a fully paid up member of the Establishment, and reasonably comfortable with that. Even bad governments do some good. I was a Liberal and fairly well on board with the prescriptions of the party in the time of Charlie Kennedy. I am, I hope, a naturally friendly person and have always considered myself gentle and kind. It is certainly true my political views are driven more by empathy with the suffering than by rigid systems of thought.

    I therefore am not comfortable being so stridently opposed to everything that is happening in the UK political mainstream. I am scared by the prospect of being the extremist nutter who mutters on about a worldview entirely at odds with the accepted narrative.

    Yet I look at the world with disbelief. I see an economy that gives little opportunity for secure and fulfilling lives to millions of young people. I see the obscene lifestyle of the super rich. And I perceive that, contrary to neo-liberal propaganda, that is not the natural order of things but a direct result of the operation of institutions created by government and their use to channel the flow of wealth to a tiny minority.I marvel at the continuing Ponzi scheme of the UK property market. I see Africa plundered for its commodities and deliberately kept poor.

    The panic-inducing correction in the world’s stock markets this week was triggered by news that unemployment was falling rapidly in the USA. That was “bad news” for the markets because it might result in workers getting better pay. There could not be a better illustration of the madness of the system. The world is suffering from a failure of imagination. Corporate ownership structure has developed in certain ways because of social conditions prevailing in the UK and Europe from the 16th century onwards. The development consists of the overlaid accretions of accumulated accidents of history. There is nothing natural or inevitable about current stock market models. The rational alternative – worker ownership of enterprises – is, however, not on any mainstream accepted political agenda.

    Jeremy Corbyn and John MacDonnell are doing their best within the awful constraints of the Labour Party they inherited, but their economic proposals are nowhere near the radical change required. In Scotland, the SNP have put in place some commendable but very modest social democratic measures to increase taxes on the wealthy. But the SNP appears to have been seized by crippling timidity on the subject of Independence. There are worrying signs that Sturgeon’s evident lack of serious intent to push for Independence, is finally damping down grassroots activism, including on social media. Meanwhile virtually the entire political class of Europe has united behind the vicious suppression of Catalonia, with peaceful campaigners facing lengthy years as political prisoners. Those events, more than any, crystallise my understanding that a “liberal” political Establishment no longer exists.

    In conclusion, either I am barking mad or the world is becoming a much darker place. As the position of the vast majority of people as helots to the super wealthy is further consolidated, the manufacturing of consent by the control of information becomes ever more crucial to the elite. I have never desired to stand outside society barking unheeded warnings. You have probably gathered that the last few months I have been inclined to succumb to the fact that my own life would be more comfortable if I stopped barking. But I shall continue – please feel free to warn me when I get over-bitter.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...-own-thoughts/
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

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