What Should Be in the United Left Alliance Programme ?

[C. Flower]

There's a lot of discussion of the ULA at the moment, and one of the questions is what should be in the programme of the ULA. Some people are drafting documents to give to the Steering Committee.

The content of the Programme clearly isn't going to be settled here, but it's a perfectly good place to discuss, propose and debate possible policies and aims for the ULA.

[Sam Lord]

I'll help if they abandon Trotskyism ... otherwise it is a doomed project.

[TotalMayhem]

it is a doomed project.

While capitalism is in its death throes, resurrecting the rotten corpse of socialism cannot be the answer.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

'Lets go and support the Occupy movement instead'.

Thunderous fuppin' applause all round.

[unspecific]

Let's have something popularly drafted and popularly ratified where the component parties' whips are ordered to stand down for the vote.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

And drop the insistence on revisiting Trotsky and Lenin's philosophical shopping lists. Goldman Sachs think Trotsky and Lenin are partners in the London office.

[Sam Lord]

While capitalism is in its death throes, resurrecting the rotten corpse of socialism cannot be the answer.

You have another option Total? Please tell ...

[C. Flower]

I'll help if they abandon Trotskyism ... otherwise it is a doomed project.

I'd suggest that you find out what Trotskyism is, before deciding on that. This would involve reading something written by Trotsky. You could try "In Defence of October" - it's only a short speech, but would give you a bit of an idea of his thinking.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trot...29/09/fi-b.htm

[Sam Lord]

I'd suggest that you find out what Trotskyism is, before deciding on that. This would involve reading something written by Trotsky.

You mean to tell me that the million and one sects he spawned all got it wrong? I've been exposed to their unfortunate literature for decades. Infiltrating, wrecking and splitting ... Trotskyism 101.

[C. Flower]

You mean to tell me that the million and one sects he spawned all got it wrong? I've been exposed to their unfortunate literature for decades. Infiltrating, wrecking and splitting ... Trotskyism 101.

But you've never read anything by Trotsky.

[Sam Lord]

But you've never read anything by Trotsky.

As I've told you before. I've never read Mein Kampf but I know what a fascist is.

[C. Flower]

As I've told you before. I've never read Mein Kampf but I know what a fascist is.

Any chance of you posting on topic ?

( You might ask yourself btw, why it's so obvious that you haven't read any Trotsky. )

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I'd suggest that you find out what Trotskyism is, before deciding on that. This would involve reading something written by Trotsky. You could try "In Defence of October" - it's only a short speech, but would give you a bit of an idea of his thinking.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trot...29/09/fi-b.htm

I actually clicked on that link, skimmed down through it and came to the conclusion that the most useful function Trotsky ever performed was as an icepick stand in Mexico City.

It is political poetry and very much of its era but I think trying to look at the world now through the eyes (sorry Leon, 'eye') of Trotsky and Lenin is as pointless as trying to define the world now through Henry Ford's eyes.

The 'means of production' are more abstract now than in their day. There are no factory gates at which to pass out pamphlets in order to mobilise the proletariat. The bourgeoisie don't want revolution- they want to be left alone in the evenings to watch telly.

[C. Flower]

I actually clicked on that link, skimmed down through it and came to the conclusion that the most useful function Trotsky ever performed was as an icepick stand in Mexico City.

It is political poetry and very much of its era but I think trying to look at the world now through the eyes (sorry Leon, 'eye') of Trotsky and Lenin is as pointless as trying to define the world now through Henry Ford's eyes.

The 'means of production' are more abstract now than in their day. There are no factory gates at which to pass out pamphlets in order to mobilise the proletariat. The bourgeoisie don't want revolution- they want to be left alone in the evenings to watch telly.

Hasn't lost his ability to seriously annoy the forces of reaction so. However, the topic of the thread is possible ULA policies and programme and I would appreciate a return to topic.

[C. Flower]

Let's have something popularly drafted and popularly ratified where the component parties' whips are ordered to stand down for the vote.

For example, should it be a party committed to socialism ? committed to the end of capitalism?

Is there a need for a "transitional programme" of practical demands ? And if so, what should be in it ?