Ghost estates in city refused cash for vital safety works -Belmayne, Priory Hall and Marsfield

[C. Flower]

It appears that the architects certified the block as compliant.

Perhaps there may be legal action taken against them - I have not heard of any.
They were reported as saying that the problems have arisen post completion.

The speed and size of the bubble must have meant that many people were doing jobs at which they had very little experience.

[eskerman]

It appears that the architects certified the block as compliant.

Perhaps there may be legal action taken against them - I have not heard of any.
They were reported as saying that the problems have arisen post completion.

The speed and size of the bubble must have meant that many people were doing jobs at which they had very little experience.

Its hard to accept that so much work was undertaken post completion that would warrant such a serious drastic action to be taken... and to deem the entire building as unfit or unsafe to live in.. whatever about remedial works but the entire building.. it stinks and its more then likely gonna end up with the architects and consultants..

I rent offices in a new building ( 2006 ) that was suppose to be fire safety compliant and it turned out there was a serious problem with lack of passive fire protection and smoke detection in the ceiling voids.. and it all landed back with the architect who issued his instruction to fire officer for a fire cert...clearly the building was not adequately protected and I think the out of jail card was some basic refit but... no passive protection in the voids where cables ran through or adequate smoke detection on the voids...

I think there is still crap flying between the owners and the architects.. on top of all that the standard of work in the building is scandalous.. it was thrown up.. and it will never last as long as building that we build 30 years ago.. even they were not built with quality workmanship.. we lost many of our good tradesman to cowboys who only wanted to make a quick €.. sad reality of a system left to run wild... the customer always gets stuffed

[Baron von Biffo]

Is NAMA not responsible to get this fixed ?

Why should the taxpayer pick up the tab for people who didn't exercise proper caution when buying their apartments?

[fluffybiscuits]

Why should the taxpayer pick up the tab for people who didn't exercise proper caution when buying their apartments?

They would have or should have got a surveyors report but if you have a construction industry that is well very small people know other people dont they!!

[C. Flower]

Why should the taxpayer pick up the tab for people who didn't exercise proper caution when buying their apartments?

If the apartments had fire certs when they were bought (it seems that they did) then they did exercise proper caution.

[Baron von Biffo]

If the apartments had fire certs when they were bought (it seems that they did) then they did exercise proper caution.

Media coverage, particularly the clips of Priory Hall on RTE last night, it's clear that compliance with fire regulations is only part of the problem here. There are design and construction quality issues as well.

Caveat emptor is a very sensible maxim. If you don't have the appropriate skills yourself then buying a home without getting an engineer/architect report on it first is irresponsible.

[fluffybiscuits]

Media coverage, particularly the clips of Priory Hall on RTE last night, it's clear that compliance with fire regulations is only part of the problem here. There are design and construction quality issues as well.

Caveat emptor is a very sensible maxim. If you don't have the appropriate skills yourself then buying a home without getting an engineer/architect report on it first is irresponsible.

The buildings would have had to adhere to the building regultions which are set by the county councils or the corpo. There would have to have been regular checks to ensure that they were compliant so there is a failure somewhere along the line in terms of the chain of events and someone is to blame .

[C. Flower]

Media coverage, particularly the clips of Priory Hall on RTE last night, it's clear that compliance with fire regulations is only part of the problem here. There are design and construction quality issues as well.

Caveat emptor is a very sensible maxim. If you don't have the appropriate skills yourself then buying a home without getting an engineer/architect report on it first is irresponsible.

Even if someone got a surveyor to inspect before purchase, a lot of things might be missed e.g. the problem with lack of fire separation in the cavities.

That is why people who certify - architects and engineers - have to have a lot of insurance.

The developer would have no expertise himself and would be reliant on the engineer or architect who supervised the project and whoever certified it as compliant.

[eskerman]

The buildings would have had to adhere to the building regultions which are set by the county councils or the corpo. There would have to have been regular checks to ensure that they were compliant so there is a failure somewhere along the line in terms of the chain of events and someone is to blame .

There has to be someone accountable for these blatant disregard for proper building regulation compliance.. I think the buck stops with architects and their consultant buddies, it also leads all the way to the project engineer and the likes of problems with Priory is a catastrophic failures of the controls by the so called professional's and that includes the likes of planning and Dublin city council..

I cannot understand why the the Fire Officers accept the instructions of architects to issue fire certificates, what happens if lives are lost in a fire.. this connects back to proper enforcement of the safety authorities and fire officers and that its incumbent on them to inspect all buildings at various stages of construction to make sure they are fully compliant for all fire safety..

Tip of an iceberg I know.. and as usual these matters drag on for years and the ordinary joe soap gets shafted.

[Spectabilis]

Apparently this was used by builders instead of morticiser to make cement flow more easily. It will have crumbled away in ten years. Poor Joe and Joan Soap.

[C. Flower]

There has to be someone accountable for these blatant disregard for proper building regulation compliance.. I think the buck stops with architects and their consultant buddies, it also leads all the way to the project engineer and the likes of problems with Priory is a catastrophic failures of the controls by the so called professional's and that includes the likes of planning and Dublin city council..

I cannot understand why the the Fire Officers accept the instructions of architects to issue fire certificates, what happens if lives are lost in a fire.. this connects back to proper enforcement of the safety authorities and fire officers and that its incumbent on them to inspect all buildings at various stages of construction to make sure they are fully compliant for all fire safety..

Tip of an iceberg I know.. and as usual these matters drag on for years and the ordinary joe soap gets shafted.

Most buildings don't have these problems. The architect and the engineer are the people who have the knowledge of the building and fire regulations. Who else could certify the work? Any buyer should get their own surveyor's report and that always used to be a requirement for a mortgage.

What would have given belt and braces coverage would have been random unannounced inspections by Dublin City Council engineers or architects during the course of work.

I'm not sure whether or not that was happening.

Homebond only inspect foundations - some form of improved Homebond insurance with more inspection might fill the gap and improve overall construction standards.

[Dr. FIVE]

Parlon on the wireless handwringing over bank interest. No sharp hack seemed to think of pressing him on this. It would be within his domain yeah?

[eskerman]

Most buildings don't have these problems. The architect and the engineer are the people who have the knowledge of the building and fire regulations. Who else could certify the work? Any buyer should get their own surveyor's report and that always used to be a requirement for a mortgage.

What would have given belt and braces coverage would have been random unannounced inspections by Dublin City Council engineers or architects during the course of work.

I'm not sure whether or not that was happening.

Homebond only inspect foundations - some form of improved Homebond insurance with more inspection might fill the gap and improve overall construction standards.

I dont think its correct to say that most buildings don't have these problems.. we simply don't know and according to the reports coming out now there maybe up to 50% of construction carried out in the past 8-10 years that will start to show serious problems... reports of widespread use of fairy liquid as plastercizer and very little concrete cube testing.. poor insulation, lack of fire safety standards.. this is salt in the wounds of hard pressed house and apartment buyers who are now in negative equity. I think this is a time-bomb and no one really knows the debts this thing will sink to.

[C. Flower]

I dont think its correct to say that most buildings don't have these problems.. we simply don't know and according to the reports coming out now there maybe up to 50% of construction carried out in the past 8-10 years that will start to show serious problems... reports of widespread use of fairy liquid as plastercizer and very little concrete cube testing.. poor insulation, lack of fire safety standards.. this is salt in the wounds of hard pressed house and apartment buyers who are now in negative equity. I think this is a time-bomb and no one really knows the debts this thing will sink to.

I'm sure there are a lot of problems out there but these flats are exceptional, rather than typical - they've been at the centre of disputes for a good while. They have very obvious problems, from what I've read, that can be seen by anyone. The failure to separate the apartments off is a real problem, and much harder to identify, as is use of substandard materials.

The vogue for flat roofs and external timber were very obvious pitfalls for the future given our climate. That was thoroughly avoidable, as was the decision in Dublin to go with very low insulation standards, lower than in the rest of the country.

[morticia]

Feeling selfishly grateful for life in a 1980s house.... stood the test of time so far....

Prime time on this now. Inspector on saying not ONE priory hall apt meets standards....and this is the tip of the iceberg.

Nama apparently offering help with rehousing, didn't catch details (on 9 news) as kids going to bed.

My heart goes out to the residents, it really does.

Mind you, if half the apartments are sub standard, knocking half of them down would solve the oversupply problem......