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Thread: Racism increase in Ireland

  1. #1
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    Default Racism increase in Ireland

    I want to add that this has proved to be a flashpoint and a source of aggro on p.ie among users and other users . I have already apologised to two or three members for ripping lumps and being insulting as its an issue I feel strongly about so I will need to be reminded to play the ball and not the man perhaps!

    It would occur to me that we have an issue with racism in Ireland and this needs to be addressed. Groups like Stormfront need to be investigated and a no nonsense approach to be taken. I know people may scream free speech and other assorted items but let me remind people free speech is not there to insult people nor to incite hatred.A report by the Immigrant Council of Ireland has shown that we have an issue with racisim in Ireland. The following quote

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1004/racism.html

    Focus groups were held with African bus-drivers, Luas revenue protection officers from a variety of ethnic backgrounds and Asian healthcare workers, all of whom had lived in Ireland for between six and ten years.
    Many of those participating in the focus groups were naturalised Irish citizens.
    The vast majority had experience of racist incidents, varying from long-term harassment and violent assault to anti-social behaviour that resulted in victims having to flee their homes.
    Just to add at a League of Ireland ground I have heard racist chants towards players (not from Pats fans but other fans) and I have seen it myself on the Luas towards the ticket inspectors. New legislation is needed to stamp it out. Perhaps make it automatically to be seen to incite hatred?
    Cause I can’t change, I can’t change the world alone
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    And take your step that’s gonna make a difference and change your world
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Not to mention the shenanigans with foreign cab drivers.
    I see a lot of integration between children of different backgrounds.
    I suppose we are the first generation who have ever had to deal with any sort of immigration in significant numbers.
    Perhaps it was always going to present problems.
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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Griska View Post
    Not to mention the shenanigans with foreign cab drivers.
    I see a lot of integration between children of different backgrounds.
    I suppose we are the first generation who have ever had to deal with any sort of immigration in significant numbers.
    Perhaps it was always going to present problems.
    I remember my grandmother telling me the first time she saw a blackman was when she was in her early 40's, she was raised in Ballyfermot and has never seen one till then. Ireland I think needs to be more open, for a nation that has suffered abroad we could have a lot more empathy for those from abroad who come to our shores.
    Cause I can’t change, I can’t change the world alone
    I need you all, everybody, start dreaming of it
    And take your step that’s gonna make a difference and change your world
    - Hotel FM


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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    I remember my grandmother telling me the first time she saw a blackman was when she was in her early 40's, she was raised in Ballyfermot and has never seen one till then. Ireland I think needs to be more open, for a nation that has suffered abroad we could have a lot more empathy for those from abroad who come to our shores.
    Agreed.
    "This isn't working,
    My middle-brow f**ker"

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    There is a problem with racism in Ireland but I think that on balance given the large influx in a short time, that the Irish people in general have acquitted themselves well, albeit with some problems. In other countries there would have been far stronger reactions than have manifested themselves here.

    While all of the behaviour spelled out in that report is disgraceful and disturbing, it may not all be necessarily motivated by racism, but rather by simply 'anti-social' inclinations that simply pick on an obvious aspect of the person targeted, which may indeed be racial characteristics. We should be careful not to overuse the charge of 'racism' as it tends to become so diluted with overuse that it loses its power of moral condemnation. There are real racists out there and we should not hesitate to label them so.

    As to how to deal with it, I'm afraid that I must respectfully disagree with the OP. Curtailing freedom of speech is not a solution as it infringes on the freedom upon which the security of all other freedoms rests. I fundamentally disagree with the current, thankfully rarely invoked, hate-speech laws. The way to respond to speech is with counter-speech and not through efforts to silence the opposition using the force of law.

    Education appears to me to be the main way to combat this behaviour and it is notable that in many ways the 'moral' education that our children receive in school does not adequately train them being as it is based, in the main, on a defunct religious based moral system. Adult education is also needed. Other than that, the government should make it so that if a criminal act, say assault, is identified as having a racist motivation that this should be an aggravating factor and should attract a far harsher sentence. As with most of our other laws, more rigourous enforcement of our equality legislation would be most helpful.
    “The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts.” - Marcus Aurelius

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    My impression is that there was a lot more racism and anti-immigrationism around 2003-4 than there is now.

    I remember thinking that once the crash came, racism would become rampant, but so far I have not seen that.

    Part of that may be due to the scapegoating of public sector workers, who became the butt of populist right-wing anger instead of immigrants.

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    There is a problem with racism here but so is there everywhere. It takes time for people to integrate but it also takes time for people to get to know newcomers. I think it would help integration if the anti racism industry went bankrupt.

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    There is a problem with racism in Ireland but I think that on balance given the large influx in a short time, that the Irish people in general have acquitted themselves well, albeit with some problems. In other countries there would have been far stronger reactions than have manifested themselves here.

    While all of the behaviour spelled out in that report is disgraceful and disturbing, it may not all be necessarily motivated by racism, but rather by simply 'anti-social' inclinations that simply pick on an obvious aspect of the person targeted, which may indeed be racial characteristics. We should be careful not to overuse the charge of 'racism' as it tends to become so diluted with overuse that it loses its power of moral condemnation. There are real racists out there and we should not hesitate to label them so.

    As to how to deal with it, I'm afraid that I must respectfully disagree with the OP. Curtailing freedom of speech is not a solution as it infringes on the freedom upon which the security of all other freedoms rests. I fundamentally disagree with the current, thankfully rarely invoked, hate-speech laws. The way to respond to speech is with counter-speech and not through efforts to silence the opposition using the force of law.

    Education appears to me to be the main way to combat this behaviour and it is notable that in many ways the 'moral' education that our children receive in school does not adequately train them being as it is based, in the main, on a defunct religious based moral system. Adult education is also needed. Other than that, the government should make it so that if a criminal act, say assault, is identified as having a racist motivation that this should be an aggravating factor and should attract a far harsher sentence. As with most of our other laws, more rigourous enforcement of our equality legislation would be most helpful.

    Hi Cato , always a pleasure to chat to you mate

    I think perhaps we have got a large proportion of non Irish to Irish but I think that its something that right wing media have played on linking it to peoples insecurities and thereby galvinisng people into believing that others are taking their jobs. We have done a good job in helping these people and indeed as times are tough we have to help ourselves too but I think what is lacking is not a sense of community. Jmcc raised a very good point over on the other site that we need to treat these people as human beings. Looking at the over all picture this is what people have forgotten we are more interested in ourselves than reaching out to help fellow man and this applies all across the board.

    Im not in favour of limiting free speech but if it does become a weapon of oppression and a tool to whip people into a frenzy then something needs to be done about it. Remember in Rwanda how radio broadcasts had Tutsis turning on the Hutus, that is the type of example I am talking about . Freedom of speech is good in that it lets us know who our enemies are in terms of fighting the enemy that is racism.

    Education is a key tool, but we need to get them from early on to teach them tolerance. We cant change the parents but we can target the kids and teach them tolerance about everything.
    Cause I can’t change, I can’t change the world alone
    I need you all, everybody, start dreaming of it
    And take your step that’s gonna make a difference and change your world
    - Hotel FM


    www.fluffybiscuits.org - Eccentric,Utopian and a tad mad

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Hi Cato , always a pleasure to chat to you mate

    I think perhaps we have got a large proportion of non Irish to Irish but I think that its something that right wing media have played on linking it to peoples insecurities and thereby galvinisng people into believing that others are taking their jobs. We have done a good job in helping these people and indeed as times are tough we have to help ourselves too but I think what is lacking is not a sense of community. Jmcc raised a very good point over on the other site that we need to treat these people as human beings. Looking at the over all picture this is what people have forgotten we are more interested in ourselves than reaching out to help fellow man and this applies all across the board.

    Im not in favour of limiting free speech but if it does become a weapon of oppression and a tool to whip people into a frenzy then something needs to be done about it. Remember in Rwanda how radio broadcasts had Tutsis turning on the Hutus, that is the type of example I am talking about . Freedom of speech is good in that it lets us know who our enemies are in terms of fighting the enemy that is racism.

    Education is a key tool, but we need to get them from early on to teach them tolerance. We cant change the parents but we can target the kids and teach them tolerance about everything.
    Its not only teaching the kids about tolerance, but also letting them seeing it in action.

    They need to see that their friends are welcome in their houses to play regardless of their skin colour or what their particular creed is. But let us also not lose sight of the fact that immigrants must also be willing to integrate.

    Sometimes there are cases of reverse racism, where the immigrants are reluctant to integrate into society. They may see a secular society as something intolerable, to be despised and not to be part of. The integration of people into society is a two way street and both must play a part.

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by concernedparent View Post
    Its not only teaching the kids about tolerance, but also letting them seeing it in action.

    They need to see that their friends are welcome in their houses to play regardless of their skin colour or what their particular creed is. But let us also not lose sight of the fact that immigrants must also be willing to integrate.

    Sometimes there are cases of reverse racism, where the immigrants are reluctant to integrate into society. They may see a secular society as something intolerable, to be despised and not to be part of. The integration of people into society is a two way street and both must play a part.
    I have always said that a bicultural model is the way forward. In Singapore which lets be honest while the model is not perfect its a lot better than segregation. The Singapore govt initiated a model whereby all housing was mixed between Indians, Chinese, Malays and other ethnic communities. The kids learn English and their own mother tongue in school. Basically their language and everything else is used alongside English as the primary model. Your last point rings very true immigrants must play a part in helping society get along as should the locals, its a little bit of give and take. Its another reason why we should just demolish borders then everyone lives where they want ..
    Cause I can’t change, I can’t change the world alone
    I need you all, everybody, start dreaming of it
    And take your step that’s gonna make a difference and change your world
    - Hotel FM


    www.fluffybiscuits.org - Eccentric,Utopian and a tad mad

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Griska View Post
    Not to mention the shenanigans with foreign cab drivers.
    .
    Indeed a lot of foreign cab drivers are very racist, I know that is not what you meant, but it is true. It will be a hell of a long time before some Orientals accept Africans as equal human beings. And in my experience a lot of Africans see us natives as soft and easily fooled and/or intimidated, and if things don't go their way they start crying "racism". Its not only whites that can be racist.


    However, the reason I came upon your post Griska is that I was looking for a home for this very true section from a youtube clip concerning keyboard racists, in this case white ones.

    http://youtu.be/j0oihyftShc?t=2m47s
    Last edited by eamo; 20-10-2011 at 08:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by eamo View Post
    Indeed a lot of foreign cab drivers are very racist, I know that is not what you meant, but it is true. It will be a hell of a long time before some Orientals accept Africans as equal human beings. And in my experience a lot of Africans see us natives as soft and easily fooled and/or intimidated, and if things don't go their way they start crying "racism". Its not only whites that can be racist.


    However, the reason I came upon your post Griska is that I was looking for a home for this very true section from a youtube clip concerning keyboard racists, in this case white ones.

    http://youtu.be/j0oihyftShc?t=2m47s

    Taxi driving as a profession (my da is a taxi driver) seems to contain a high proportion of racists and I cant explain why and this is not confined to any one race or nationality. The behaviour at that rank in town on O Connell St is meant to be the worst.

    Look at the post I put up about DRM Ireland the other night! They are the worst example...
    Cause I can’t change, I can’t change the world alone
    I need you all, everybody, start dreaming of it
    And take your step that’s gonna make a difference and change your world
    - Hotel FM


    www.fluffybiscuits.org - Eccentric,Utopian and a tad mad

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    My impression is that there was a lot more racism and anti-immigrationism around 2003-4 than there is now.

    I remember thinking that once the crash came, racism would become rampant, but so far I have not seen that.

    Part of that may be due to the scapegoating of public sector workers, who became the butt of populist right-wing anger instead of immigrants.

    A very interesting point. Would it also possibly be the case that with so many of us emigrating, there is a less critical feeling towards migration generally? And also, the fact that you could only feel sorry for someone migrating into Ireland today....

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    I think it is very interesting to travel around Ireland and see at first hand the peoples who are intergrating easily. I notice from visiting national monuments and places of interest who make up the majority of visitors. Firstly there are the Irish and secondly there are the Polish and thirdly the tourists. I never ever see Africans or others. Was in Glendalough 3 times this year, Cliffs of Moher, Dublin tourist attractions, Rock of Cashel, Waterford Crystal and many many more but not one African face. Many many Polish and eastern Europeans. seems they eastern Europeans want to know about Ireland and that is part of integration by gaining knowledge. Africans dont seem to want that. Think about it when you visit national treasures or monuments and you look at the faces. The only coloured faces you see are visitors from Abroad. At swimming baths etc very rare to see Africans. Maybe my eyes are tinted but I think not.

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    Default Re: Racism increase in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by immigrant View Post
    I think it is very interesting to travel around Ireland and see at first hand the peoples who are intergrating easily. I notice from visiting national monuments and places of interest who make up the majority of visitors. Firstly there are the Irish and secondly there are the Polish and thirdly the tourists. I never ever see Africans or others. Was in Glendalough 3 times this year, Cliffs of Moher, Dublin tourist attractions, Rock of Cashel, Waterford Crystal and many many more but not one African face. Many many Polish and eastern Europeans. seems they eastern Europeans want to know about Ireland and that is part of integration by gaining knowledge. Africans dont seem to want that. Think about it when you visit national treasures or monuments and you look at the faces. The only coloured faces you see are visitors from Abroad. At swimming baths etc very rare to see Africans. Maybe my eyes are tinted but I think not.
    Maybe Im wrong but I have seen Africans in the pubs, working in the jobs with Irish,at the swimming pools, they enjoy doing a lot of the things we enjoy doing. Perhaps Im seeing things differently !...
    Cause I can’t change, I can’t change the world alone
    I need you all, everybody, start dreaming of it
    And take your step that’s gonna make a difference and change your world
    - Hotel FM


    www.fluffybiscuits.org - Eccentric,Utopian and a tad mad

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