Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35

Thread: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Out of my mind
    Posts
    12,138

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    The state is clocking up six thousand quid a month to keep someone in jail over a fine of a grand or two? It doesnt make any financial sense!
    Maybe we should privatise the prison system?

    It's got nothing to do with the costs, fluffy. It cost the state well over a million to lock up a murderer for 15 years. How much money could be saved with one bullet?
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hiding inside Brendan Gleesons underwear drawer...
    Posts
    13,555

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Maybe we should privatise the prison system?

    It's got nothing to do with the costs, fluffy. It cost the state well over a million to lock up a murderer for 15 years. How much money could be saved with one bullet?
    I know the angle you are coming from but does the state take into account the financial hardship of a lot of people? Being in jail means a conviction and therefore a criminal record and therefore being disadvantaged in the jobs market. A lot of people whom cant pay fines are already unemployed !

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16,660

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    I know the angle you are coming from but does the state take into account the financial hardship of a lot of people? Being in jail means a conviction and therefore a criminal record and therefore being disadvantaged in the jobs market. A lot of people whom cant pay fines are already unemployed !

    It is an interesting matter.

    For example: should the state allow people of limited means to drive without insurance? This would not really be fair to someone they may run into and disable permanently or something like that. So how does the state ensure that everyone drives with insurance if it cannot fine (as they have no money) nor imprison (because it is cost prohibitive) someone who chooses to drive without insurance? I know that most people would balk at floggings or stuff like that ... so what other options are there?
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,429

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    It is an interesting matter.

    For example: should the state allow people of limited means to drive without insurance? This would not really be fair to someone they may run into and disable permanently or something like that. So how does the state ensure that everyone drives with insurance if it cannot fine (as they have no money) nor imprison (because it is cost prohibitive) someone who chooses to drive without insurance? I know that most people would balk at floggings or stuff like that ... so what other options are there?
    The community service option was mentioned. Of course, some people might prefer a quick flogging to 200 hours of hard labour on a rat- infested canal bank.
    The point made by the programme was that fines disproportionately affect people with no disposable income. The same fine is the cost of a night on the town for one person and a month's food budget for another.

    The question of what to do about the cost of travel is quite another thing. The Irish population has the highest dependency in Europe on cars, to reach work and basic services. This is having devastating consequences now - people are losing their cars and as was the case for areas like Clondalkin even in the boom, are locked out of employment.

  5. #20

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Motor insurance and road tax should be added to the price of fuel, this system works perfectly well in parts of Canada.and can be set up here easily. There would be no need for court appearances, fines or jail. People who drive more pay more.
    People without a tv licence should have the set confiscated in the first instance, and only for repeat offenders should court be the outcome.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,429

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Enquiryinto View Post
    Motor insurance and road tax should be added to the price of fuel, this system works perfectly well in parts of Canada.and can be set up here easily. There would be no need for court appearances, fines or jail. People who drive more pay more.
    People without a tv licence should have the set confiscated in the first instance, and only for repeat offenders should court be the outcome.
    For motor tax, that makes every sense environmentally, socially and economically. There would be big savings in collection costs and people would use public transport more.

    I would love to see a figure for the millions it costs to collect motor tax - it is a whole industry - civil servants on 50,000 a year dealing with it, office space, Gardaí, Courts and Prisons. And hundreds of thousands of people waste half a day a year going to the office to pay it.

    I can't see how it would work for insurance, where different people pay different amounts.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    15,318

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Well, it seem pretty clear that the State doesn't intend or want them to go to jail, but is too chaotic to provide any alternative.

    Current legislation provides for ability to pay to be taken into consideration when fines are imposed. But there is a backlog of 30,000 + warrants out for people who were fined under the old system.
    The very foundation of our fines system is flawed because it's based on flat rate fines. If someone on the dole is fined €100 it's 1% of his annual income but the same fine for a banker or company director is insignificant.

    There was a man form Sweden or Norway, I can't remember which, on the radio the other day talking about how prostitution is dealt with in his country. In passing he mentioned that fines for offenders are based on their annual income, ie. the fine is a days income or two days or whatever.

    That is an excellent idea. It's very fair because unlike our system it imposes the same level of pain on all offenders regardless of their income.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    15,318

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    It is an interesting matter.

    For example: should the state allow people of limited means to drive without insurance? This would not really be fair to someone they may run into and disable permanently or something like that. So how does the state ensure that everyone drives with insurance if it cannot fine (as they have no money) nor imprison (because it is cost prohibitive) someone who chooses to drive without insurance? I know that most people would balk at floggings or stuff like that ... so what other options are there?
    We could do what they do in the UK - Seize the vehicle.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    15,318

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The community service option was mentioned. Of course, some people might prefer a quick flogging to 200 hours of hard labour on a rat- infested canal bank.
    The point made by the programme was that fines disproportionately affect people with no disposable income. The same fine is the cost of a night on the town for one person and a month's food budget for another.

    The question of what to do about the cost of travel is quite another thing. The Irish population has the highest dependency in Europe on cars, to reach work and basic services. This is having devastating consequences now - people are losing their cars and as was the case for areas like Clondalkin even in the boom, are locked out of employment.
    I'd feel more sympathy for Clondalkin people if my taxes weren't subsidising bus and Luas services for them. There are places where cars are necessary rather than an optional luxury, Clondalkin isn't one of them.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    15,318

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Enquiryinto View Post
    Motor insurance and road tax should be added to the price of fuel, this system works perfectly well in parts of Canada.and can be set up here easily. There would be no need for court appearances, fines or jail. People who drive more pay more.
    People without a tv licence should have the set confiscated in the first instance, and only for repeat offenders should court be the outcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    For motor tax, that makes every sense environmentally, socially and economically. There would be big savings in collection costs and people would use public transport more.

    I would love to see a figure for the millions it costs to collect motor tax - it is a whole industry - civil servants on 50,000 a year dealing with it, office space, Gardaí, Courts and Prisons. And hundreds of thousands of people waste half a day a year going to the office to pay it.

    I can't see how it would work for insurance, where different people pay different amounts.
    Putting the cost of road tax onto fuel is particularly unfair. The state has pumped billions of taxpayer Euro into providing subsidised transport for one section of the population that would be largely unaffected by such a move. On the other hand those people who don't have access to the subsidised system would be charged more for their transport. It's a double injustice and a further attack on rural Ireland.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    16,660

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Enquiryinto View Post
    Motor insurance and road tax should be added to the price of fuel, this system works perfectly well in parts of Canada.and can be set up here easily. There would be no need for court appearances, fines or jail. People who drive more pay more.
    Sounds like a vastly better system to me. Not implemented where I am in Ontario, however.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hiding inside Brendan Gleesons underwear drawer...
    Posts
    13,555

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    Why not re-introduce corporal punishment for minor crimes?

    Corporal punishment is a form of physical punishment that involves the deliberate infliction of pain as retribution for an offence, or for the purpose of disciplining or reforming a wrongdoer, or to deter attitudes or behaviour deemed unacceptable.
    I think that any society that has to resort to violence in order to punish those whom committed the act has lost the plot. We are not a society that should punish and eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, we are functioning human beings above that and should look at other methods . I have no issues with denying people things they take for priveleges or other things like that. In Singapore they have corporal punishment which means they have a low crime rate but its also a nanny state of sorts.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,429

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Paddy O'Gorman just on RTE covering Ennis Court.

    Addicts / recovering addicts being given jail sentences (one sentence of seven months was mentioned) for theft of a bottle of lucozade.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Out of my mind
    Posts
    12,138

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Judge Durcan of the “Indian Defence”?

    Patrick Durcan (born 1951) is an Irish District Court judge and a former Fine Gael politician.

    Durcan was born in Westport, County Mayo in 1951, and was educated at University College Dublin. He worked as a solicitor from 1973 and sat as a member of Mayo County Council from 1979 to 2004, and also as a member of Westport town council. Durcan stood for Dáil Éireann as the running mate of future Taoiseach Enda Kenny in Mayo West at the 1981, February 1982, November 1982 and 1987 general elections, but was unsuccessful on each occasion. He served as a Senator in Seanad Éireann from 1982 to 1987. Durcan was nominated by Taoiseach Garret FitzGerald. He was appointed a district judge in November 2011.
    He's got quite a reputation... particularly when it comes to motoring offences.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: Prime Time - Jail Time for Tiny Crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    We could do what they do in the UK - Seize the vehicle.
    in fairness they do do that mate if youre stopped with no insurance or the tax out for a month....

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us