An EU Army - For or Against ?

**Lapsedmethodist** · 21-04-2010, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by simonj

No, bad idea - our neutrality policy gives us a dispropotionate amount of influence in the world,

For example ?

**jimmymalone** · 21-04-2010, 04:04 PM

Against. I'm not sure I'd want to defend a corporate state like the EU. People will only defend a state or country when then they have a sense of loyalty to that country.

**Lapsedmethodist** · 22-09-2010, 01:45 AM

It's not an EU army, but it's Ireland joining a Nordic battlegroup.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...279432270.html

Glad to hear a European military spokesman talking about the use of European forces in places like Haiti. Hopefully Europe will replace the Yanks - where's the Macs before I lift a finger - in humanitarian response work.

**MrFunkyBoogaloo** · 22-09-2010, 02:53 AM

Against.

How about a poll though?

**gli** · 22-09-2010, 06:01 AM

xxx

**C. Flower** · 22-09-2010, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist

My problem with relying on outfits like the Paris- based IEA is that I have to believe that they, among all others , have access to true data. From my lowly posttion in the oilfields I was able to see some of the manipulation of the figures on reserves that went on. Am I expected to believe that the IEA have factored in corrections to all those fake figures that arose from corrupted surveys ? Maybe they have, I don't know.
I still hope for a european military pact though; if only to keep the Americans out of R2P operations. Can you imagine the MINURCAT operation in Chad if Americans rather than the Irish and French had been involved ????

The horse is bolting out of the stable door as we write. This meeting is on tomorrow.

US - NATO seek closer ties with EU

EUROPEAN LEADERS are taking steps to develop deeper ties between the EU and Nato as the union seeks to boost its influence in global affairs.

At a summit next Thursday, the leaders of the 27 member states will ask EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton to explore ways of strengthening the union’s links with the military alliance.

The move is politically sensitive for Taoiseach Brian Cowen, given Ireland’s policy of neutrality and claims by opponents of the Lisbon Treaty that the Lisbon reforms would deepen “militarisation” in the EU.

It comes as the US and Nato push to intensify Europe’s security co-operation with the alliance and as the EU tries to give new momentum to its external relations.

The summit was specifically convened to discuss the EU’s strategic relations, although the leaders will also debate the economic crisis.

They are expected to hand down a six-week deadline to European Council president Herman Van Rompuy to resolve significant differences between member states on new measures to fortify the union’s system of economic governance.

A single currency. in an economic crisis in which the angry working classes are coming onto the streets in hundreds of thousands (the Czech Republic and Greece yesterday, with thousands of lorry drivers battling police on the steps of the Parliament") co-ordination of armed forces must be on the agenda. The push for NATO-EU military co-operation must be seen in this context as well as in the context of oil.
The US is looking for greater economic cooperation too - the military and economic are inseparable.In a speech last Friday in Madrid, Nato secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen called for increased “mutual support” between the EU and the alliance as part of a comprehensive approach to security.

He spoke of “talking together, planning together and acting together” whenever that made sense.

“The days when Nato and the European Union eyed each other a bit warily are behind us,” he said.

“Nato has its strengths. So do the EU and the UN, and for that matter non-governmental organisations as well. We need to do our utmost to ensure that those strengths are mutually reinforcing.”

Such remarks echo a push for closer EU-Nato co-operation from Washington, where diplomats believe the Lisbon Treaty provides a platform for deeper ties. In Paris last January, secretary of state Hillary Clinton said the complexity of today’s world was such that the development of common policies would serve both Nato and the EU.

“They are no longer separated. It’s hard to say that security is only about what it was when Nato was formed and the EU has no role to play in security issues,” she told the French military academy.

Ireland is playing its usual smoke and mirrors role, calling for deepening of EU-UN military structures: the UN providing a "neutral" rubber stamp for much of the US-NATO's military and foreign policy.

For example, Dublin recently called for debate on deeper EU military co-operation with the UN, including by directly supporting the planning and operational cycles of missions.

**C. Flower** · 22-09-2010, 03:17 PM

The EU Commission has just met and discussed Foreign Relations - the Irish Army meanwhile is getting battle - ready.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/i...k-2346116.html

**Lapsedmethodist** · 22-09-2010, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by C. Flower

The EU Commission has just met and discussed Foreign Relations - the Irish Army meanwhile is getting battle - ready.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/i...k-2346116.html

Pics here:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagaz...7624886013637/

**C. Flower** · 22-09-2010, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist

Pics here:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagaz...7624886013637/

Thank you Lapsed. Is the missing drone in there somewhere ?

**Lapsedmethodist** · 22-09-2010, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by C. Flower

Thank you Lapsed. Is the missing drone in there somewhere ?

If it was, it wouldn't be missing, now, would it ?

**Lapsedmethodist** · 22-09-2010, 04:40 PM

BTW... it would make sense to include a discussion on the Triple Lock in this thread. And R2P and W2P. The hoary old SWP " we're against it ' is hardly relevant in the 21st century.. not being nuanced enough 'n all !

**C. Flower** · 22-09-2010, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist

BTW... it would make sense to include a discussion on the Triple Lock in this thread. And R2P and W2P. The hoary old SWP " we're against it ' is hardly relevant in the 21st century.. not being nuanced enough 'n all !

Work away then.

There's no SWP input in the thread so far as I'm aware, unless you're a sleeper.

**Munnkeyman** · 23-09-2010, 11:47 AM

The Lion on the crest hasn't even got a penis!!!!
We're possibly sending an army into warzones
heralded by an omnipotent lion.
Surely not a good omen.
That's my reason for thinking it's a bad idea......

The coat of arms of the Battlegroup depicts a heraldic lion holding a sword and an olive branch. The lion is a national symbol of many former and present European kingdoms and the sword and the branch signifies the ambition to impose peace - with or without the use of violence.

In 2007 the commander ruled that the lion's penis had to be removed. Since civilian women are often sexually abused in the war zones of the world, they did not consider the depiction of a penis appropriate on a uniform worn into battle. However, this decision has been questioned by some Swedish heraldists, including heraldic artist Vladimir Sagerlund, who has asserted that coats of arms containing lions without a penis were historically given to those who had betrayed the Swedish Crown.