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Thread: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years

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    Default Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years

    A very interesting blog by Johnny Fallon, a FF insider-commentator. It gives a bit of a feel of the state of the party, post election.

    He points out that Martin acted beyond his remit in offering to support Gay Byrne as FF Presidential Candidate. He says that his suspicion is that the reason that Martin messed up is that he was listening to financial adviser, who may have said, given the parlous state of Fianna Fail's Party finances, Byrne would be a cheap and cheerful option who would walk into the Aras without drawing on Party funds.

    He also says that Martin, in a series of strong local meetings, had promised to "give the party back to the members", but that his kind of carry on did not match up to the speeches.

    The extent of public and private grumbling about this has been exceptional among FF Parliamentary members.

    What kind of sign is this for the future of either Martin, or the Fianna Fail Party itself.

    http://johnnyfallon.blogs.ie/
    Last edited by C. Flower; 16-09-2011 at 01:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    Did Martin really mess up? I don't think they would have gone public if Gay Byrne hadn't accepted the offer of the FF ticket. Maybe Micheál Martin received a phone call from certain "mad men" ordering him to put Gaybo back into the closet.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    what do expect from that fool, he has been under the table for 14 years now, not in the real world

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Fallon
    Politics is a game of beliefs and convictions first and foremost and they do not make for wealthy individuals or bank accounts.
    So, from the horse's mouth, the wealthy loyal and typical paedofáils like Frankeen Forty Gaffs and Donie 'Comb Over' Cassidy and the rest of them were devoid of 'beliefs and convictions', unless it's Liam Lawlor's and Ray 'Rambo' Burke's convictions he's thinking about. And as for bank accounts, don't get me started!

    Interesting blog article though.
    "It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth; there is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts."
    — Buenaventura Durruti

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    FF and their financial advisers eh?

    So for all Martin's talk and his "nationwide tour" it appears the leadership still aren't listening.

    The grassroots were happy to vote Bertie Ahern, good enough for them.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    grassroots were promised the reforms necessary

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    A very interesting blog by Johnny Fallon, a FF insider-commentator. It gives a bit of a feel of the state of the party, post election.

    He points out that Martin acted beyond his remit in offering to support Gay Byrne as FF Presidential Candidate. He says that his suspicion is that the reason that Martin messed up is that he was listening to financial adviser, who may have said, given the parlous state of Fianna Fail's Party finances, Byrne would be a cheap and cheerful option who would walk into the Aras without drawing on Party funds.

    He also says that Martin, in a series of strong local meetings, had promised to "give the party back to the members", but that his kind of carry on did not match up to the speeches.

    The extent of public and private grumbling about this has been exceptional among FF Parliamentary members.

    What kind of sign is this for the future of either Martin, or the Fianna Fail Party itself.

    http://johnnyfallon.blogs.ie/
    Meehaul speaking through both sides of his mouth at the same time.

    This is another disaster for Fianna Fail - and another of their leaders acting in a cavalier fashion and to hell with members. I have a neighbour who predicted this would happen - she spent Sunday in fits of rage whilst gardening, Poor hollyhocks took most of the damage ... but they'll survive and will bloom again next year while Fianna Fail never will again!
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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    ... but they'll survive and will bloom again next year while Fianna Fail never will again!
    By forfeiting all pretense at socialism and joining a coalition with Fine Gael, Labour handed the position of official opposition party to Fianna Fáil, guaranteeing them speaking privileges, positions on committees, interview rights with the media, and the appearance of being the government-in-waiting. But for Labour, Fianna Fáil would be history.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    Two fairly pointless pieces in the IT, first on the grassroots and today's on the leadership. Most of AntiE's analysis a while back was spot on with an ageing membership and a near non existent organisation, especially in Dublin. Same old excuses are trotted out again and again.

    “That is where Fianna Fáil has slipped up,” he says. “It has lost the local knowledge. In the past number of years the grassroots are not being listened to at all. That has finished us.”
    Nothing to do with .. ye know yourselves.


    One interesting thing and something that will be no surprise to anyone outside the party. Is the financial trouble the party is apparently in and the lack of contact with the retired TD, who all paid themselves will and left with several massive pensions.

    Who would have thought.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE View Post
    Two fairly pointless pieces in the IT, first on the grassroots and today's on the leadership. Most of AntiE's analysis a while back was spot on with an ageing membership and a near non existent organisation, especially in Dublin. Same old excuses are trotted out again and again.


    Nothing to do with .. ye know yourselves.


    One interesting thing and something that will be no surprise to anyone outside the party. Is the financial trouble the party is apparently in and the lack of contact with the retired TD, who all paid themselves will and left with several massive pensions.

    Who would have thought.
    It seems that the party is not able to fight the Presidential election due to its being broke. If it was a party looking to recover, a Presidential campaign behind a decent candidate might have restored some iota of credibility.

    An important part of Fianna Fail's history is its role as a flag-holder for the State and its (qualified) independence. The bank bailout, the bankrupting of the State and the subsequent handover last November to the EU/IMF were historic events that buried any possibility of FF continuing in this role.

    Its social base was disproportionately small farmers, a group that has dwindled in the 1990s and 2000s.

    I found the stuff about the cummann, in the IT, interesting - the way they are used to nominate GE candidates. Of course, the TDs don't want to discuss policy with the cummans as their real allegiance lies elsewhere.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    “I believe Fianna Fáil can recover but certainly not for the next election. Many people have been hurt too deeply. It will take a few general elections before we can come back strongly,”
    How does a party like FF hope to survive if even they themselves believe they're out for that long. No ideology other then power and the coalition sitting across the chamber don't even have that. What the govt do have is patronage and that is something FF will die on the vine without.

    State funding will be way down on top of the fines for gender. The big donations will be going to the other side of the house.
    Their own former TDs won't but their hand in the pocket for dig out. FF through and through Mammy even tried to fleece here own local organisation.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    ‘If Fianna Fáil fail to run a candidate in the upcoming Presidential election, they are effectively admitting that they are a dead party.’ - A former PD


    http://errorpositiveinfinity.wordpre...ial-candidate/

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    A dead party, without even a corpse to fight over. How is it that such a long-standing dominant party has ended up with big debts and apparently little in the way of assets ?

    The Party was built on the promise and illusion of an independent united capitalist Ireland. The illusion has died - the Bank bailout, the IMF/EU takeover were the death blows, with the GFA as a slow burner in the background. Some people just didn't care about independence any more, seeing Ireland as part of Europe, and those who did could see that the GFA was a betrayal of independence, drawing Ireland into a UK -dominated federation.

    http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/edito...re-166172.html

    The Examiner seems to think they can have a future. They miss the point, that the only way that could happen would be by a truly vicious shift to the right by FG/Lab leaving some room in the centre.

    Micheál Martin must know that he is probably the first leader of his party who will never be Taoiseach, but this realisation frees him too. If he can convince the rearguard of a once great party that ideals outweigh privilege, that the purpose of politics is social not individual, that they can yet make their founders’ hopes a reality, then they might have some sort of a future.

    Even if he manages all of that, he will have to convince a broader audience that the tribalism that once animated the differences between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael still has any relevance.

    He, or his successor, will have to convince Ireland that we need a second conservative, middle-of-the road, middle-brow party. This may prove the highest hurdle of all and it will be a question waiting for Fine Gael when they eventually return to the opposition benches.

    If he cannot, he is wasting his time and Fianna Fáil will go the way of any other organisation that squandered its relevance and credibility, as Fianna Fáil did under Haughey, Ahern and Cowen. And rightly so.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 03-09-2011 at 01:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    If he can convince the rearguard of a once great party that ideals outweigh privilege, that the purpose of politics is social not individual, that they can yet make their founders’ hopes a reality, then they might have some sort of a future.
    oh well

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    Default Re: Fianna Fail - The Wilderness Years - Why Micheal Martin Messed Up Over Gaybo

    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE View Post
    oh well
    They missed the point that Ff precisely did make its hopes reality. The natural and economic resources were concentrated into the hands of themselves and their cronies, the working class was pacified with crumbs off their table, and with the allure of a certain extent of independence, but not enough to upset the big and powerful neighbours.

    It was just perfect.

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