Sean Quinn is a Threat to the State

[PaddyJoe]

When the US companies ask for help - more IT graduates, better broadband, less expensive electricity - they are ignored.

Not so Cactus! Look at Mary Coughlan's response to Intel's Craig Barrett complaints about the education system a couple of months ago:

Speaking at the TUI conference in Ennis earlier today, Minister for Education Mary Coughlan recommended the re-introduction of bonus points for honours level maths as a part of the innovation nation strategy.

High-tech sector's response to Coughlan
ICT Ireland said that the recommendation was welcomed by the high-tech sector and was something the organisation had been calling for these past few years.

“The reintroduction of bonus points will send a clear signal to national and international industry leaders that Ireland is serious about developing a smart economy.

http://siliconrepublic.com/news/arti...s-bonus-points
Anyway, getting a bit off topic here. I was trying to make the point that big business will always try to influence public policy in its favour. Its just done in different ways.

[C. Flower]

Not so Cactus! Look at Mary Coughlan's response to Intel's Craig Barrett complaints about the education system a couple of months ago:

http://siliconrepublic.com/news/arti...s-bonus-points
Anyway, getting a bit off topic here. I was trying to make the point that big business will always try to influence public policy in its favour. Its just done in different ways.

Point well made. Yes, they do. But what is happening with Quinn's business and Anglo Irish is unprecedented.
Both have been hit by vast property speculation debts and both are, or are likely to be, under Garda investigation.

If banks had been robbed in the plebian way, with shotguns and masks, would we be paying for that ?

[PaddyJoe]

Point well made. Yes, they do. But what is happening with Quinn's business and Anglo Irish is unprecedented.
Both have been hit by vast property speculation debts and both are, or are likely to be, under Garda investigation.

If banks had been robbed in the plebian way, with shotguns and masks, would we be paying for that ?

I hope we are at a tipping point where the old rules and the old order are going to be swept away. A year ago most people were at the stage of standing up on the bus shouting 'I don't know what a tracker mortgage is'.
Most of the country has now figured out that we are being stolen from and are getting angry enough to want to know what is going on and who is benefiting.
As you pointed out its not a coincidence that this saga blew up in Easter week when the Dail is in recess. Difficult to find out what exactly is going on when the TDs are in the sticks.

[irishpancake]

The rest of the Quinn Group, d'ye want to know what the rest of the Quinn Group companies do?

Cement, prestressed concrete, bricks, window glass, roof tiles, tarmac, cavity wall insulation and...radiators. The last one always confused me a little but I suppose if you are making almost everything else that goes into newbuild houses....

And so what if one insurance company goes bust? We've got loads of insurance companies. "Systemic" me hole, just another FF wide-boy massive punt on bloody house prices, with added dodgy accounting.

Yeah +1

Of course making Anglo part-owners of such a Systemically Important Group of Companies, also makes the stinking pile that is Anglo a Systemically Important Bank.

Let's just hope that Mr. Elderfield is strong enough to withstand this attack by the combined forces of Fianna Fail and the Duke of Moral Hazard.

He should resign very publicly if the Forces of Darkness have their way this week-end.

[PaddyJoe]

Good piece in the IT tonight by Simon Carswell and Barry O'Halloran which clarifies where the various parties are.

REGULATOR:

A meeting between Anglo Irish Bank and the regulator on the bank’s alternative rescue plan for Quinn ended yesterday with the regulator maintaining “a hard line” on its concerns about the banks proposals.

The regulator is understood to be open to proposed alternatives to full administration of Quinn Insurance but believes there are significant hurdles facing Anglo’s plan as it stands. The regulator is keen to proceed with Mondays court hearing to confirm the appointment of administrators in the belief that it would be the better outcome for Quinn’s 1.3 million policyholders and the bank could then deal with the administrators. The regulator believes the banks rescue plan faces major obstacles as it would have to secure approval from the European Commission.

ANGLO:

Anglo is seeking a 30-day “standstill” agreement to allow it devise a solution that avoids a possible collapse of the group which owes a further €1.3 billion to about 20 US bondholders and a syndicate of banks. Anglo wants to take control of the Quinn group, restructure debts totalling €4 billion owing by the group and family, and put in a new management team to run the insurance company and boost its solvency to allay the regulator’s concerns. It is understood the bank would prefer that the group’s founder Seán Quinn have no future role after any restructuring. However, to secure his co-operation for the rescue plan the bank believes it may be necessary he remains on as non-executive chairman and the family retain an interest in the group. Anglo is also keen to avoid outright ownership of such a large conglomerate which would carry significant additional risks for the bank. It has proposed to take control of the group through options or warrants giving it outright ownership if Mr Quinn failed to co-operate and meet certain conditions.

Anglo has also proposed to inject €150 million to raise the solvency ratio at the insurer and to buy out the groups €600 million debts to about 20 US bondholders, swapping the loans for about €550 million in Government-guaranteed bonds.

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE:

The Department of Finance is understood to be pushing Anglo to progress a plan to find the best commercial outcome with the least financial impact to the State-owned bank.

This could go on for months if Quinn mounts a legal challenge to the regulator.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...268058482.html

[C. Flower]

"In order to secure his co-operation".... Is that what the Revenue are saying to people when they are about to shut down their firm over a couple of thousand back tax ?

There is a dispute then, as to whether EU agreement is needed or not. I posted a link to an article on this earlier, that to the best of my memory said that the Government thought EU consent was not needed as Anglo Irish is a "commercial entity".

[PaddyJoe]

I would think that EU agreement is required from the Competition Authority for any deal that involves putting public money into loss making companies in an open market.
How is there a level playing field in the insurance market if Quinn is being bailed out with taxpayer's cash?
It was the same principle with the bank bail out and the govt. had to get permission from the EU to set up NAMA and the bank recaps. On the face of it these are anti competitive subsidies as well.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

These public bailouts are covering up horrendous malpractice.

Thats the best short summary of what is afoot alright. Not one red cent of public money should go anywhere near a private business unless the books at that company are examined forensically.

I think the minimum expected of company directors and particularly those large enough to affect the economy should be to be asked some very searching questions and removed if its found they've contributed to the situation.

Quinn has demonstrated in spades why he should have been debarred previously for playing fast and loose with the law. If people in Cavan have any beef it should be with Mr Quinn.

[C. Flower]

I'm cross-posting this from the other Quinn thread -
there seems to me to be a lot of confusion about the nature of the operation.

Quinn Insurance collected premiums from people. A lot of people found it very difficult to settle claims.

The monies required to be reserved for paying out claims appear to have been raided sorry advanced to Quinn and his family or used as colleteral for loans so that Quinn speculate on Anglo Irish shares (using the high risk Contract for Difference tax avoidance system) and/or were used as collateral for other forms of borrowings and/or speculation.

Quinn presumably believed that he and his family would become spectacularly wealthy from this, while people struggled to get compensation for their broken back, head injury etc. (there is a particular case I have in mind).

As a consequence of this simply unbelievable behaviour he is now in 4 billion debt.

So the answer to this situation is that we should allow the Anglo Irish Bank - that is still under Garda investigation and that was complicit in lending Quinn huge sums of money to secretly buy Anglo Irish shares and in organising an artificial boost to the price of Anglo Irish shares specifically to reduce Sean Quinns debts

- is to partly acquire the group and write off its debts ?

Please tell me this is just a very peculiar dream.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...257903340.html But far more than the 200 million payout to the Quinn "children" was involved. -

UNA McCAFFREY and COLM KEENA
SEÁN QUINN’S five children shared a €200 million payout from the main Quinn Group holding company last year. The group also made a provision for a €126 million write-off of money forwarded to the family by the group and lost in its disastrous investment in the now nationalised Anglo Irish Bank.
This figure brings the total write-off over the past two years to €888 million. The Quinn family and its businesses are understood to be the largest single customer of Anglo Irish Bank.
Accounts for the Quinn holding company, Quinn Group (ROI) Ltd, filed recently in Belfast, show it made a pre-tax profit of €83 million in 2008, compared with a loss of €425 million the previous year, when it wrote off loans to the family totalling €762 million.
Leaving aside these exceptional items, the group made a pre-tax profit of €466 million last year, and €530 million in 2007.

[DCon]

Was there anything dodgy or golden circle like in the history of how Quinn started the insurance company or managed to stumble on the rest of his wealth?

He seems to be protected from on high.

I wonder if Bertie ***********************when he borrowed Quinn's helicopter?

[C. Flower]

The way he recruited a top man from the Department of Finance onto the Board would not be tolerated in many countries.

[Xray]

Not so Cactus! Look at Mary Coughlan's response to Intel's Craig Barrett complaints about the education system a couple of months ago:


http://siliconrepublic.com/news/arti...s-bonus-points
Anyway, getting a bit off topic here. I was trying to make the point that big business will always try to influence public policy in its favour. Its just done in different ways.

For all the talk of the bright future for science etc in Ireland the pay and employment prospects of people leaving college now with these degrees are dreadful. Pay is on the floor and there is no security. These people will all be long gone by the time we get our act together. Honours maths is not going to sort that out.

[Xray]

Will will soon have publicly owned banks, building societies and insurance companies, vast tracts of land, building companies and development companies. Many private sector lawyers, auctioneers and accouants will also see out their careers working for the state.

At the same time we will priavtise health and eduation and other core areas of state responsibility. Anyone else think we have this the wrong way around? The state is taking all the risks and the private sector is taking all the sure things.

[Digout]

Can we keep it real please ZFF.

He is being real, read the proclaimation of Independence, the IRB and the Citizen Army are gearing up again.

[truth.ie]

He is being real, read the proclaimation of Independence, the IRB and the Citizen Army are gearing up again.

I really, really, really want to believe that.