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Thread: Tymoshenko taken to jail

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    However was the orignal cause not Russian interference in the elections anyways and that is what triggered the Orange revolution? I think Russia is worried if Ukraine joins the EU then there is less of a buffer between them and the rest of Europe. Putin strikes me as being an isolationist of sorts.
    Relations with Russia weren't the main reason of the Revolution. The most important causes were in the middle of country.
    And, you are right, Russia needs Ukraine as the neutral territory. But our politicians haven't yet chosen the single line of development, so this situation won't change before long.
    Last edited by Hellga; 24-10-2011 at 09:11 PM.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellga View Post
    Relations with Russia weren't the main reason of the Revolution. The most important causes were in the middle of country.
    And, you are right, Russia needs Ukraine as the neutral territory. But our politicians haven't yet chosen the single line of development, so this situation won't change before long.
    Well Hellga I hope they find the right solution What is your opinion on Tymonshenko....
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    What is your opinion on Tymonshenko....
    Tymoshenko wasn't bad politician, although sometimes she carried out the populistic reforms and she avoided unpopular decisions. But Tymoshenko is more diplomatic and sensible in the foreign policy than Azarov (serving Prime minister) and she found the compromises both Russia and Europa.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Some background information on the Ukraine which you must be aware of,to try and understand current Ukrainian politics.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAH2NCH1OnY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAH2NCH1OnY[/ame]

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin View Post
    Some background information on the Ukraine which you must be aware of,to try and understand current Ukrainian politics.
    In the history of every nation there are some problem and varied events. And some politicians use them in their election programs and so on. But I don't understand how it can determine the present political situation in Ukraine. Do you think that all Ukrainians live in the past? Why?

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellga View Post
    In the history of every nation there are some problem and varied events. And some politicians use them in their election programs and so on. But I don't understand how it can determine the present political situation in Ukraine. Do you think that all Ukrainians live in the past? Why?
    You are Ukrainian?
    You must be ethnically Russian.
    Dismissing the effect of the Holodomor on current Ukrainian politics?
    Your grandparents must not have been ethnicly cleansed or starved to death by Stalin.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin View Post
    You are Ukrainian?
    You must be ethnically Russian.
    Dismissing the effect of the Holodomor on current Ukrainian politics?
    Your grandparents must not have been ethnicly cleansed or starved to death by Stalin.
    Firstly, I didn't deny the fact of Holodomor and I didn't defend Stalin or somebody else. And I know Ukrainian history well.
    Secondly, I am Ukrainian. Of course, not all my ancestors were Ukrainians, but my parents are. (And my grandparents too, if it is very important for you)
    Thirdly, I still can't understand HOW Holodomor related with Tymoshenko arrest!!!
    You didn't answer my questions, by the way.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Hellga, what do you think the future holds for Ukraine in terms of EU membership? There is another discussion here where I put forward the possibility that Ukraine might enter deeper economic relations with Russia and the CIS as the economic crisis affects western Europe, what is your opinion about this? Will there be closer relations between Ukraine and Russia or will Ukraine move towards the EU or make her own way independently?
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  9. #24
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    "Do you think that all Ukrainians live in the past? Why?"

    No.of course not.
    But history and especially recent history has a direct influence on current events.(everywhere).
    I know that Ukraine is racially and linguistically divided.
    30% plus speak Russian and consider themselves Russian.
    The USSR tried to crush Ukrainian nationalism and language.

    This is a major factor within current Ukrainian politics whether you like it or not.
    Eastern Ukraine would happily secede to Russia if pushed too far.

    Native Ukrainians see Europe as a guarantor of their independence.(Mistakenly in my view)

    The slaughter under Stalin and the forced deportations of indigenous Ukrainians after WWII are still open wounds.
    I realise that I am being simplistic leaving out Poland,Austria,Lithuania

    My own view from an Irish perspective has always been that the Soviet Republics and the Eastern Bloc were occupied by Russia.
    If Ireland and Belgium were entitled to independence,so were Ukraine and Armenia.
    This was very upsetting to many of my comrades who would die for Eritrea but wanted to bomb Gdansk.

    I will post some more later.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin View Post
    This is a major factor within current Ukrainian politics whether you like it or not.
    Eastern Ukraine would happily secede to Russia if pushed too far.
    Actually, your vision of political situation in Ukraine is a bit simplified. The majority of Ukrainians is bilingual, and a lot of people use Russian language. It is natural, because some Eastern regions of Ukraine primordially was settled by Russian people and Crimea was transfered to the Ukraine only in 1954. And there are very close links between Ukraine and Russia. But it doesn't imply that Ukraine isn't sovereign state! Of course, some politicians support the partnership with Russia and other want to cooperate with European Union, and what? Yuschenko promised the eu integration. Yanukovych promised to strengthen relationship with Russia. And the position of Ukraine hasn't changed, I think.

    "Eastern Ukraine would happily secede to Russia if pushed too far."
    Hm... I doubt that it's true...

    "The USSR tried to crush Ukrainian nationalism and language."
    Do you know about the policy called "korenization" ("putting down roots")? Our history is more tangled, than you think.

    I don't speak in support of Soviet Union, but the causes of the present situation not only in the past.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    New financial charges against Tymoshenko from the 1990's. I guess there is no, or at least a very long Statute of Limitations?

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/1...s-against.html
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    New financial charges against Tymoshenko from the 1990's. I guess there is no, or at least a very long Statute of Limitations?

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/1...s-against.html
    Yeah, Ukraine is a funny state, isn't it? The present authorities try to argue that Tymoshenko is to blame for all problems in the country. They want to take away all her money and sentence her to life imprisonment.
    According to the press, her health has become worse.

    By the way, I look through the criminal code. You are right, for the most part of crimes there is the limitation period of 15 years
    Last edited by Hellga; 12-11-2011 at 08:20 PM.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    I doubt anyone could point to any single country and reliably say that the politics are free of corruption. Part of what makes politics fascinating, is trying to figure out which politicians have mostly the public good at heart, and who have mostly ulterior motives. Fifteen years seems a long time for a Statute of Limitations, but that is a subject worthy of a completely separate conversation.

    To help with your English.......which is very good,......... here's a better way to say ............."I look through the criminal code".........."I looked through the criminal code".......you would say that in response to a statement, or alternatively, "I did look through the criminal code " you would say that in response to a question.

    Please check in and offer your opinions. People here are (mostly) friendly and will help. I think it's cool that PW now has its own resident Ukrainian...and beyond expert.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  14. #29
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    Default Maidir Le: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    Ukrainian authorities have formally re-arrested opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko on a new criminal charge, her lawyer said today, even as the European Union prepared to send an envoy to Kiev to try to save a summit later this month. “Tymoshenko has been arrested forever,” her lawyer, Vlasenko said, according to a statement on Tymoshenko’s Web site.

    Story

    Is there a big chess game going on here - between the EU and Ukraine, also between Russia and Ukraine?
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Tymoshenko taken to jail

    I have a suspicion the judiciary is not independent in the Ukraine.

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