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Thread: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugee View Post
    Its July, do ya expect anything else?
    Indeed Fugee, the seasonal sectarian flu is a contributing factor, although as 5intheface suggests with his poster, for many it's a long term illness.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    That's why we produced this;



    Shameless self-publicity from http://ancruiskeenlawnmower.wordpres...hjuly-special/
    Just to round up on the areas affected here's the reports from Carrickfergus/Newtownabbey areas. Thus far no-one in ''authority'' has come out to point the finger at any group as being resonsible or to say that this widespread disorder was orchestrated........we await the night........

    Several vehicles were hijacked during violence on Saturday night in the Ballyduff area of Newtownabbey and in Carrickfergus.

    A DUP MLA for the area, who was on the ground in the early hours of Sunday morning, said the trouble there was linked to rioting in Ballyclare.

    "Disturbances broke out in the Sunnylands and Woodburn areas, both arterial routes of Woodburn Road and North Road were blocked at one stage by hijacked vehicles", David Hilditch told UTV.

    "A petrol bomb was also thrown in the North Road area''.

    "We have a very developed flag flying policy here in the borough and so it was very disappointing to have this last night when such a process is going on in the town, and it is disappointing that an incident in another town has actually sparked an incident here in Carrickfergus", the East Antrim MLA added.

    http://www.u.tv/News/Rioting-in-Co-A...d-60a15d822927
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  2. #17
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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    So, what is really the reason for it ?

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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    So, what is really the reason for it ?
    So much of it is like any other year. Any excuse no matter how tenuous will do. For a certain section of Loyalism, the first half of July is like a kind of sectarian Christmas where partying turns to attacks on the easiest targets. If taigs can't be found, the cops will do, if they don't show then it's stab each other.

    The defensive mentality takes over about now. Other variables are only that.
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  4. #19
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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    So, what is really the reason for it ?
    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    So much of it is like any other year. Any excuse no matter how tenuous will do. For a certain section of Loyalism, the first half of July is like a kind of sectarian Christmas where partying turns to attacks on the easiest targets. If taigs can't be found, the cops will do, if they don't show then it's stab each other.

    The defensive mentality takes over about now. Other variables are only that.
    The dangerous thing is that this outbreak, in my view is Paramiltary related and that no-one is coming out to say it.

    Your right 5intheface about the defensive mentality and i'm sure that if the incidents are explored in the coming days we'll hear excuses such as ''erosion of culture'' from elements within the Unionist/Orange/Loyalist community.

    I'd be asking them if attacking innocent Nationalist's with firearms when they don't get their way a part of that culture.

    I'm concerned that with the 12th parades imminent this issue will be played down and approached with a ''softly softly'' attitude when in reality we need to be asking why weapons are not only in the hands of Loyalist's post GFA/Decommissioning but who's using them in the same old cultural fashion.
    Last edited by Trow; 10-07-2011 at 03:38 PM. Reason: correct last sentence.
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  5. #20
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    This is conditional Loyalty in action.
    Who could blame them for rioting? As far as Loyalists are concerned they feel that the Parades commission etc rewards violence and rioting, so they have nothing to loose by trying their luck
    5 is right, tis the season and all, and until the parading issue can be resolved once and for all, there will be continued rioting throughout the North.
    The set up at Stormount institutionalises Sectarianism and there is the very real danger that violence between the two communities could escalate beyond 'silly season' as there is little been done to bring Unionist and Nationalist together

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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by mutley View Post
    This is conditional Loyalty in action.
    Who could blame them for rioting? As far as Loyalists are concerned they feel that the Parades commission etc rewards violence and rioting, so they have nothing to loose by trying their luck
    5 is right, tis the season and all, and until the parading issue can be resolved once and for all, there will be continued rioting throughout the North.
    The set up at Stormount institutionalises Sectarianism and there is the very real danger that violence between the two communities could escalate beyond 'silly season' as there is little been done to bring Unionist and Nationalist together
    The DUP learning the hard way that that "slice of the pie " they wanted so badly for thirty years comes with the promise of massive indigestion . With a bit of luck they'll choke on it.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    As the blame game commences there are some clues as to which group was involved as we learn which type of flags were removed by the PSNI in Ballyclare.

    Somme Flags are traditionally associated with the UVF [Ulster Volunteer Force] although i fail to see what the 12th July has to do with the First World War. There is speculation that both the UVF and UDA were involved.

    For the area policing commander to say that these riots were lead by ''a group of young people'' is laughable. I hear he's new to the job.


    PSNI criticised over Co Antrim riots

    Police have come under fierce criticism after their decision to remove flags in Ballyclare led to widespread loyalist violence.
    Six police officers were injured when up to 100 people gathered in Ballyclare at around 11.30pm on Saturday in protest against the actions of the PSNI.

    Residents of the town said the flags which were taken down by the police were not illegal, they simply commemorated those who fought in the Battle of the Somme.

    Petrol bombs and other missiles were thrown at officers close to the Grange Drive and Doagh Road areas and five officers were injured when a hijacked bus was rammed into a police landrover.

    Police fired baton rounds and used a water cannon before the trouble ended at around 2.30am on Sunday.


    http://www.u.tv/News/PSNI-criticised...d-60a15d822927

    <mod admin> please don't post articles in their entirety
    Last edited by Sam Lord; 10-07-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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  8. #23
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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    As the blame game commences there are some clues as to which group was involved as we learn which type of flags were removed by the PSNI in Ballyclare.

    Somme Flags are traditionally associated with the UVF [Ulster Volunteer Force] although i fail to see what the 12th July has to do with the First World War. There is speculation that both the UVF and UDA were involved.

    For the area policing commander to say that these riots were lead by ''a group of young people'' is laughable. I hear he's new to the job.

    PSNI criticised over Co Antrim riots

    Police have come under fierce criticism after their decision to remove flags in Ballyclare led to widespread loyalist violence.
    Six police officers were injured when up to 100 people gathered in Ballyclare at around 11.30pm on Saturday in protest against the actions of the PSNI.

    Residents of the town said the flags which were taken down by the police were not illegal, they simply commemorated those who fought in the Battle of the Somme.

    Petrol bombs and other missiles were thrown at officers close to the Grange Drive and Doagh Road areas and five officers were injured when a hijacked bus was rammed into a police landrover.

    Police fired baton rounds and used a water cannon before the trouble ended at around 2.30am on Sunday.



    http://www.u.tv/News/PSNI-criticised...d-60a15d822927

    <mod admin> please don't post articles in their entirety
    They're up for the Little 12th...commemorating the 36th's wipe out on the Somme.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    Somme Flags are traditionally associated with the UVF [Ulster Volunteer Force] although i fail to see what the 12th July has to do with the First World War.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    They're up for the Little 12th...commemorating the 36th's wipe out on the Somme.
    I see, the ''mini 12th.'' A bit hypocritical of today's UVF to think themselves associated with the First Word War's 36th Ulster Division who fought and died side by side with Catholics when in comparison they are sectarian murderers.
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14102288

    Censorship in action ?
    When this article appeared on the BBC News website first, the headline was
    'police right to take down flags' : Ford
    Now it has been changed to

    Trouble in Ballyclare Wilson calls it 'an overaction'

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by mutley View Post
    There is indeed a bit of mixing and rewriting the script. On TV news on Sunday one Politician was shown live having just come out of a meeting with PSNI and he was clear that the PSNI had apologised.

    Today, Assistant Chief Constable said, [Quote].''Police would apologise when in the wrong but violence did not have to be inevitable.''

    He went on to say...[quote] There were some parts of the process we could have handled differently and we will look at that.''

    more to the developing ''word games'' here...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14102295
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  12. #27
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    Default Maidir Le: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    I'm surprised you consider this to be dissident loyalism Trow, from what I know of loyalists this kind of thing is quite mainstream and par for the course- the difference with dissident republicans is that they represent a small fringe of republicanism, the largest republican organisations North and South having accepted the GFA and the institutionalised sectarianism of Stormont politics. The fact Willie Frazer is considered a community spokesman speaks volumes about the nature of the loyalist ideology and mind-frame. It is inherently sectarian and supremacist, and nothing to do with 'identity'. Hence the parading through Catholic enclaves and the general intimidation and attacks on Catholic communities in the loyalist stongholds.

    Btw Mutley, you talk about conditional loyalty of the loyalists but I tend to disagree with you. JJ Lee wrote about loyalists in his book on Ireland from 1912-1985 and his conclusion was that they were only ever loyal to themselves. If you agree with this, as I do, then you'd also agree that they continue to remain 'loyal'.
    Last edited by antiestablishmentarian; 11-07-2011 at 12:47 PM.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiestablishmentarian View Post
    I'm surprised you consider this to be dissident loyalism Trow, from what I know of loyalists this kind of thing is quite mainstream and par for the course- the difference with dissident republicans is that they represent a small fringe of republicanism, the largest republican organisations North and South having accepted the GFA and the institutionalised sectarianism of Stormont politics. The fact Willie Frazer is considered a community spokesman speaks volumes about the nature of the loyalist ideology and mind-frame. It is inherently sectarian and supremacist, and nothing to do with 'identity'. Hence the parading through Catholic enclaves and the general intimidation and attacks on Catholic communities in the loyalist stongholds.

    Btw Mutley, you talk about conditional loyalty of the loyalists but I tend to disagree with you. JJ Lee wrote about loyalists in his book on Ireland from 1912-1985 and his conclusion was that they were only ever loyal to themselves. If you agree with this, as I do, then you'd also agree that they continue to remain 'loyal'.
    I would agree that they are loyal only to themselves, but they profess to be loyal to The Crown, hence the conditional loyalty tag

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Maidir Le: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by antiestablishmentarian View Post
    I'm surprised you consider this to be dissident loyalism Trow, from what I know of loyalists this kind of thing is quite mainstream and par for the course-
    Is it really? When was the last time post Good Friday Agreement, you heard of whole Brigades of the UVF erupting like this? Other than last month when the East Belfast UVF done something similar.
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  15. #30
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    Default Maidir Le: Re: Maidir Le: Dissident Loyalism raises it's ugly head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    Is it really? When was the last time post Good Friday Agreement, you heard of whole Brigades of the UVF erupting like this? Other than last month when the East Belfast UVF done something similar.
    Was there a whole brigade mobilised or just groups of young people by indivdual paramilitaries in their areas? From what I can see, it was more like the latter than the former, and there have been continuous outbreaks of rioting like this since the GFA was introduced.
    Нооруз пиээ пурылыа выиттыа


    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class'
    Pat Rabitte, 1987

    "Can I ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side?"
    Michael Noonan, November 2010

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