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Thread: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

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    Default Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Establishment of Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    This Council is supposedly an "Independent" body. But who does it represent ? Economics are not neutral.

    Some comments from twitter -
    The Fiscal Council is about FISCAL policy - aka Macroeconomics & Public Finance. There are no independent macroeconomists or finance specialists on it!
    Why is Fiscal Council over-loaded with 3 economists specializing in pensions?!
    (@cgcost)


    Following the agreement of the Government in June, the Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan T.D., announced today the establishment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council. The Council is being put in place as part of a wider agenda of reform of Ireland’s budgetary architecture which is envisaged in the Programme for Government.

    The Council will be an independent body and its existence and independence will be underpinned by legislation to be brought forward by Government later in the year in the proposed Fiscal Responsibility Bill. Its role will be to provide an assessment of, and comment publicly on, whether the Government is meeting its own stated budgetary targets and objectives. It will also be charged with assessing the appropriateness and soundness of the Government’s fiscal stance and macroeconomic projections as well as an assessment of the extent of compliance with the Government’s fiscal rules. The latter are also to be brought forward in the proposed Fiscal Responsibility Bill.

    The members of the five-person Council are:

    Mr. Sebastian Barnes, OECD,
    Professor Alan Barrett, TCD (on secondment from the ESRI),
    Dr. Donal Donovan, University of Limerick (formerly IMF staff),
    Professor John McHale, Head of Economics, NUI Galway and Chair of the Council, and
    Dr. Róisín O’Sullivan, Associate Professor, Smith College, Massachusetts.

    Commenting on the establishment of the Council, the Minister said:

    “The establishment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council is another important step in the process of reforming Ireland’s budgetary framework. The Council will provide an independent assessment of the Government’s budgetary plans and projections and, in doing so, will help to inform the public discussion surrounding economic and fiscal matters.

    A number of other countries have taken the step of establishing such a council and have found it to be beneficial not only in helping to ensure that an appropriate budgetary policy is pursued, but also in sending a positive signal to markets regarding the conduct of future fiscal discipline.”


    The Minister wished the members well in their work and expressed the view that the Council will make a significant contribution to the task of ensuring that Ireland avoids the type of imbalances in the public finances that have been a feature in recent years. The Minister said that he was confident that the move would be viewed positively by the markets as further clear evidence that Ireland remained on track in meeting its obligations under the EU/IMF Programme and that it was committed to overcoming its financial difficulties.



    The Minister thanked the new members of the Council for lending their time and expertise to help establish this important addition to Ireland’s budgetary framework.

    “I am delighted that we have been able to assemble such a high-quality team to form Ireland’s first Fiscal Advisory Council. I have no doubt that, over the coming period, the Council’s standing will only increase through its work. I am particularly pleased that Professor John McHale has agreed to act as Chair. He will have a key role in setting up the Council and in helping to define its remit and its independent character. I would like to thank all of the members for making available their time and expertise to help reform our budgetary architecture.”



    7 July 2011


    ENDS
    Notes for Editors

    General
    Under the Programme for Government, the Government is committed to establishing a Fiscal Advisory Council.

    The Council will be titled “Irish Fiscal Advisory Council”

    It will be an independent body and it is proposed that its existence and independence will be underpinned by legislation to be brought forward by Government in the autumn in the context of the Fiscal Responsibility Bill.

    The Council has five members, including the Chair, appointed by the Minister for Finance.

    The standard tenure of members will be three years. The first appointments to the Council are being staggered by arrangement with the members. One member will be appointed for two years, two members will be appointed for three years and two members will be appointed for four years.

    Purpose and Mandate
    The overall purpose of the Council is to help the Government to adhere to its own fiscal targets. For the initial two years following its establishment, the role of the Council will be to provide an assessment of whether the Government is meeting its own stated targets and objectives. It will also be charged with assessing the appropriateness and soundness of the Government’s fiscal stance and macroeconomic projections as well as an assessment of the extent of compliance with fiscal rules.

    The specific mandate decided by Government is as follows:

    (a) to provide an assessment of the soundness of the economic and budgetary projections and forecasts set out by the Government in the annual Budget and the Stability Programme Update,

    (b) to provide an assessment of the appropriateness[1] of the fiscal stance set out by the Government in the Budget and Stability Programme Update, including, the Government’s stated medium-term budgetary objective, with particular regard to whether they are conducive to prudent economic and budgetary management, including by reference to the provisions of the European Union Stability and Growth Pact,

    (c) to provide an assessment of whether the budgetary plans set out in the Budget and Stability Programme Update are consistent with the fiscal rules which it is proposed to publish as part of a Fiscal Responsibility Bill by the end of the year, and

    (d) to perform such other functions, including an assessment of the implications of budgetary plans for economic growth, investment and employment, as may be assigned by the Minister for Finance,

    In carrying out its role, the Council is to maintain within its structures a technical ability to provide an informed assessment and critique of the official macroeconomic forecasts, in line with its mandate.

    Reporting
    The Council will be required to report formally in writing to the Minister for Finance at least three times per year and to publish such reports and submit them to the Oireachtas within 24 hours of their presentation to the Minister.

    Legislation
    It is envisaged that the new Council will contribute to the relevant legislation that establishes the Council in law when it is being brought to finality prior to publication later in the year.

    Initial Support and Accommodation
    For the initial six to nine month period and to get the Council up and running quickly, support services and accommodation will provided for the Council through the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI). It is envisaged however, that the after the initial period, it will be a matter for the Council to make its own arrangements within its budget.

    Funding
    Funding for the Council will be provided through the Estimates process. An initial provision to get the Council up and running is being made in the revised Estimates Volume that will be published shortly by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. For the longer term, the question of the most appropriate arrangements to fund the Council will be considered in the context of the Fiscal Responsibility Bill that will be published before the end of the year.

    Context of this development
    The establishment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council is part of a significant process of reform of the budgetary architecture, including the introduction of multi-annual budget planning, performance budgeting and the introduction of a set of “fiscal rules” designed to ensure minimum rules of good practice are observed through the economic cycle. The necessary legislation to give effect as appropriate to the reforms will be brought forward by the end of the year by the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform in the Fiscal Responsibility Bill.

    The proposals for reform mentioned above take account of, and dovetail with, fiscal governance reforms at EU level. As a result of the financial and debt crises, the processes of economic and budgetary governance have been under active review within the European Union and specific proposals are being brought forward to help ensure that all EU Member States manage their national budgets in a sustainable way. These proposals include:


    · clearer policy coordination and monitoring,
    · a new principle of prudent fiscal policy-making,
    · clearer annual debt-reduction targets,
    · sharper enforcement of Stability and Growth Pact provisions,
    · more detailed monitoring of Member States, and
    · stronger national fiscal frameworks.


    Compliance with EU/IMF Structural Benchmark
    Finally, it should be noted that in the EU/IMF Programme of Financial Support, Ireland agreed to two structural benchmarks, the first being the establishment by mid-year of a Fiscal Advisory Council. This benchmark has been met. The second is the bringing forward of legislation in a Fiscal Responsibility Bill by end-year to reform the budgetary framework. It is the Government’s intention that this benchmark will also be met.

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    “I am delighted that we have been able to assemble such a high-quality team to form Ireland’s first Fiscal Advisory Council. I have no doubt that, over the coming period, the Council’s standing will only increase through its work. I am particularly pleased that Professor John McHale has agreed to act as Chair. He will have a key role in setting up the Council and in helping to define its remit and its independent character
    Tells you all you need to know. McHale has been the one of the few Irish academic economists who consistently peddled the official line under FF and now continues the same 'let's not rock the boat with the IMF/EU' spin under the new regime.
    Ex IMF official O'Donovan has also played a blinder with loads of radio and newspapers slots designed to soothe the poplulace.
    I suppose it could be seen as the IMF's local insiders advisory board. Keep a close eye on the natives and make sure they dot their 'i's and cross their 't'.
    Last edited by PaddyJoe; 08-07-2011 at 02:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe McGillycuddy View Post
    Tells you all you need to know. McHale has been the one of the few Irish academic economists who consistently peddled the official line under FF and now continues the same 'let's not rock the boat with the IMF/EU' spin under the new regime.
    Ex IMF official O'Donovan has also played a blinder with loads of radio and newspapers slots designed to soothe the poplulace.
    I suppose it could be seen as the IMF's local insiders advisory board. Keep a close eye on the natives and make sure they dot their 'i's and cross their 't'.
    Can we assume that these appointments were all IMF/EU approved ?

    I don't know anything about the individuals appointed, good or bad, but is it healthy that there are no macroeconomists - no-one accustomed to taking a strategic view ?

    Or would you think the Chairperson fits that bill?

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    Default Maidir Le: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    This is typical of the DOF. Throughout their history, they have always sought 'independent' advice from those economists who could be trusted to back their opinions- we've seen that recently with the McCarthy report on privatisation and 'rationalisation' of the public sector. This is more of the same, it seems the unquiet spirits of Brennan and McElligott continue to be channeled through their latter-day counterparts.
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    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class'
    Pat Rabitte, 1987

    "Can I ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side?"
    Michael Noonan, November 2010

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    No surprises in the first report from the Fiscal Council. Summary: 'Cut harder':
    The Government may need to find an additional €400 million in adjustments to meet its 8.6 per cent deficit target for 2012 and should seek a further €400 million to accelerate a reduction in the Government budget deficit, a new report has said.

    The newly established Irish Fiscal Advisory Council today recommended the Government introduce a larger than currently planned package of spending cuts and tax increases over each of the next four years by to reduce the deficit at a faster rate.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking22.html

  6. #6

    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Wonderful just wonderful

    We now have another quango telling what we do/do not need to know. More jobs for the boys is what springs to mind.

    Could someone please clarify my poor befuddled ageing brain and tell me what in god's name are the people already employed in Dept of Finance, NTMA and various other departments being paid to do.

    It sounds like another buck passing entity.

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    It looks like the Fiscal Council screwed up royally on their first report:
    Third time's a charm. Following on from two previous posts (here and here), tracking the stat-bending the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council was engaged in, we can now put that issue to rest. The Fiscal Council has finally published a correction and with it has published a third version of their first report. Now the crucial section reads:
    'Even though domestic demand has fallen significantly (at least in part due to the austerity measures undertaken) and domestic demand has remained weak, the General Government deficit is improving. The underlying deficit has declined from 11.8 per cent of GDP in 2009, to a projected 10 per cent this year. Austerity measures are working to reduce the deficit.'
    They finally got the numbers right - the underlying deficit numbers. So, the first version is cleaned up, while the second version has gone down the memory hole - as if it never existed.
    Now that the Fiscal Council has got the numbers right, we can start having a debate over their main contention: that the 'austerity measures are working to reduce the deficit'.
    http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/p...cil-story.html

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    The Advisory Council is back. They're trying to out Herod the IMF...
    In the third report since its establishment in the middle of last year, the Fiscal Advisory Council urged the Government to add a further €1.9 billion in adjustments to the planned €8.6 billion over the 2013-15 period.

    The council believes the additional cuts and tax increases should be introduced in the last two years of this period rather than in the forthcoming budget.

    It believes the €3.5 billion package of measures for next year is appropriate, but that similar-sized adjustments are required in both subsequent years. Currently, the Government plans a savings and new taxes package of €3.1 billion in budget 2014 and €2 billion in budget 2015.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking19.html

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Same thing as the IMF, promise worse so the the gov can still be bad

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. FIVE View Post
    Same thing as the IMF, promise worse so the the gov can still be bad
    Not for the first time.

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    The fiscal advisory council are a good window into the future EU & decision makers not having seats to worry about.

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Taft had a good takedown of McHale while back also

    http://www.irishleftreview.org/2009/...s-august-25th/

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. FIVE View Post
    The fiscal advisory council are a good window into the future EU & decision makers not having seats to worry about.
    We're providing them with a budget of €650,000 in 2012. Nice expenses for McHale, Donovan and Barrett who have been relentlessly spinning the austerity line for the last four years.

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    We're providing them with a budget of €650,000 in 2012. Nice expenses for McHale, Donovan and Barrett who have been relentlessly spinning the austerity line for the last four years.
    All are economists tasked with the job of accountants.

    Balancing the books is easy, running a productive economy is not.

    Mc Hale is about the thickest person, never mind economist that I have ever had the misfortune to listen to.

    How much are these fools costing us?

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    Default Re: Establisment of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council

    The Fiscal Advisory Council hawks are in a bit of a bind now that even the IMF are beginning to row back a bit from austerity.
    Speaking at the Dublin Economics Workshop in Galway yesterday, Prof John McHale said: “We certainly will be looking at the IMF findings . . . but the findings don’t seem to be particularly strong . . . in the Irish case . . .We will be looking at it and looking at it carefully, but at this point my sense would be that it mightn’t change our advice.”

    Addressing delegates at the conference, Prof McHale said that market creditworthiness was the key measure of sustainability currently. Noting that Ireland’s debt-to-GDP ratio is expected to peak next year at just over 120 per cent based on Government projections, he said there was “very substantial uncertainty” around those projections, including uncertainty about bank debt. “There is a 40 per cent chance that GDP will fail to stabilise by 2015,”he said.

    The Fiscal Advisory Council, which was set up last year, is mandated by legislation to make recommendations to the Government. Its establishment on a statutory basis was included in the memorandum of understanding between the Government and the troika of lenders.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325224262.html

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