Urban and Rural Ireland - A tale of two Irelands.

[Slim Buddha]

So Gregory was honestly representing his constituency when he sold his vote to Haughey in return for diverting national resources to his own patch but when TDs from outside Dublin do the same thing they're 'scheming gobshyte morons' who make the entire country suffer.

Right or wrong depends on what part of the country we're talking about.

No, Gregory was a one-off in irish politics. Most independents are single issue creatures like the TV reflector TD from Donegal, who got elected, said nothing, and sank without trace. Most independents are gobshytes or opportunists. Some make a mark,like Gregory, who , far from "selling" his vote to Haughey, forced the government to redress a totally disgraceful imbalance in the investment in the north inner city of Dublin because the cute hoors had systematically diverted resources for decades "down the country".

[Baron von Biffo]

No, Gregory was a one-off in irish politics. Most independents are single issue creatures like the TV reflector TD from Donegal, who got elected, said nothing, and sank without trace. Most independents are gobshytes or opportunists. Some make a mark,like Gregory, who , far from "selling" his vote to Haughey, forced the government to redress a totally disgraceful imbalance in the investment in the north inner city of Dublin because the cute hoors had systematically diverted resources for decades "down the country".

As I recall it the Haughey government that Gregory held to ransom only lasted 9 months in which time little of the infamous deal with Gregory was implemented. The FG/Lab government that succeeded it dropped the deal.

Jackie Healy-Rae got a lot more for his support for FF than Gregory did but because he wasn't from a Dublin constituency he was reviled for it while Gregory is beatified for trying and failing.

[Slim Buddha]

As I recall it the Haughey government that Gregory held to ransom only lasted 9 months in which time little of the infamous deal with Gregory was implemented. The FG/Lab government that succeeded it dropped the deal.

Jackie Healy-Rae got a lot more for his support for FF than Gregory did but because he wasn't from a Dublin constituency he was reviled for it while Gregory is beatified for trying and failing.

He was one of the own. The Healy-Rae clan have FF DNA and Bertie was only too happy to heap largesse on him. Gregory was a true independent, disliked by most of the political establishment for his focus on the appalling underinvestment in, and political neglect of Dublin's north inner city.

Your deliberate use of emotive terms like "held to ransom" illustrates your own contempt for Gregory and, on a wider scale, everything to do with Dublin. This thread is one long whine about your perception of how the country outside the Pale is being discriminated against. The greater Dublin area has over a million residents. If you had you way you would get rid of most services there because the Midlands needs them more.

It really is worse you are getting. So much so that you are beginning to sound as if you want to run for election yourself. In the Midlands, of course!

[Baron von Biffo]

He was one of the own. The Healy-Rae clan have FF DNA and Bertie was only too happy to heap largesse on him. Gregory was a true independent, disliked by most of the political establishment for his focus on the appalling underinvestment in, and political neglect of Dublin's north inner city.

So Healy-Rae wasn't a true independent bacause he had FF roots but Gregory was a true independent despite his SF/IRSP roots.

Your deliberate use of emotive terms like "held to ransom" illustrates your own contempt for Gregory and, on a wider scale, everything to do with Dublin.

Whereas your use of terms like 'Screaming gobshyte morons' shows your dispassionate attitude to anyone outside the M50?

This thread is one long whine about your perception of how the country outside the Pale is being discriminated against. The greater Dublin area has over a million residents. If you had you way you would get rid of most services there because the Midlands needs them more.

The thread is about the consequences of having the most urban cabinet ever. It's not exclusively about Dublin though the extraordinary domination of the cabinet by Dublin ministers means that's where the greatest part of our funds are being slushed.

There's a serious issue to be discussed here that you may be missing because of an obsession with FF and hypersensitivity to the slightest negative comment about Dublin.

It really is worse you are getting. So much so that you are beginning to sound as if you want to run for election yourself. In the Midlands, of course!

Funny you should say that. I was twice asked to consider contesting GEs as an independent and was offered support to that end.

For various reasons - the lifestyle, the pay and, to be honest, the realistic chance of my being elected (I'm not so conciliatory in the flesh as I am on here) - I decided not to do it.

No doubt you'll be devastated to hear that I no longer have the stamina even if I had the inclination.

[Slim Buddha]

So Healy-Rae wasn't a true independent bacause he had FF roots but Gregory was a true independent despite his SF/IRSP roots.



Whereas your use of terms like 'Screaming gobshyte morons' shows your dispassionate attitude to anyone outside the M50?



The thread is about the consequences of having the most urban cabinet ever. It's not exclusively about Dublin though the extraordinary domination of the cabinet by Dublin ministers means that's where the greatest part of our funds are being slushed.

There's a serious issue to be discussed here that you may be missing because of an obsession with FF and hypersensitivity to the slightest negative comment about Dublin.



Funny you should say that. I was twice asked to consider contesting GEs as an independent and was offered support to that end.

For various reasons - the lifestyle, the pay and, to be honest, the realistic chance of my being elected (I'm not so conciliatory in the flesh as I am on here) - I decided not to do it.

No doubt you'll be devastated to hear that I no longer have the stamina even if I had the inclination.

Gregory was never part of the most corrupt patronage and pork barrel system of public administration in the history of the state. Healy-Rae was.

My remark of gobshyte morons refers to the sort who were on the Quinn zombie demo in Cavan.

The vast majority of people in Dublin do not perceive to have any advantage whatsoever in having cabinet ministers as TDs. They expect little or nothing positive from them.

My obsession, as you call it, with FF stems from my bemusement on how tolerant the Irish people seem to be with the corrupt and criminal authors of their assets destruction. I guess that by having strong feelings about the scum who destroyed the country of my birth, I am something of a ***** these days. You lot are so so forgiving. I am not.

Hypersensitive to any criticism of Dublin?? Certainly not, but most of the ills that have befallen Dublin have occurred with little or no input from the people of Dublin themselves. I would suggest that you are the one being hypersensitive, so much so that a perception you have impelled you to start this thread, playing the beal bocht and howling at the moon of injustice.

You should really reconsider a career in politics. You certainly understand the system, as it is currently constructed, and I am sure the Midlands needs someone to "bring home the bacon"!

[Baron von Biffo]

Gregory was never part of the most corrupt patronage and pork barrel system of public administration in the history of the state. Healy-Rae was.

Ah, so if Healy-Rae had been ex-SF or FG he would have been the moral equivalent of Gregory?

My remark of gobshyte morons refers to the sort who were on the Quinn zombie demo in Cavan.

Quite how "the scheming of gobshyte morons who see it as their duty to "deliver" in their own constituencies" could be intended to apply to those attending the Quinn rally is a mystery to me.

The vast majority of people in Dublin do not perceive to have any advantage whatsoever in having cabinet ministers as TDs. They expect little or nothing positive from them.

Perhaps if, like the people of Roscommon who have no minister, they had the hospital that could keep them alive closed down, their perceptions might be different.

My obsession, as you call it, with FF stems from my bemusement on how tolerant the Irish people seem to be with the corrupt and criminal authors of their assets destruction. I guess that by having strong feelings about the scum who destroyed the country of my birth, I am something of a ***** these days. You lot are so so forgiving. I am not.

Obsession is obsession regardless of what spawned it. It's not generally seen as a great aid to rational thought.

Hypersensitive to any criticism of Dublin?? Certainly not, but most of the ills that have befallen Dublin have occurred with little or no input from the people of Dublin themselves. I would suggest that you are the one being hypersensitive, so much so that a perception you have impelled you to start this thread, playing the beal bocht and howling at the moon of injustice.

Were the people in Ballymun 'howling at the moon' when they protested at the inadequacy of a 15 minute, subsidised bus service? Was Mary Lou 'howling at the moon' when she used the national parliament to air a grievance her constituents had with their bin collector?

You should really reconsider a career in politics. You certainly understand the system, as it is currently constructed

It's a citizen's duty to try to understand how the system works. Unfortunately, the way the system works is that areas with no minister lose out.

and I am sure the Midlands needs someone to "bring home the bacon"!

While you're being sarcastic your remark is none the less true. Apart from Hogan, who's politically incapacitated having shot off both his feet, all the cabinet members come from a 'U' around the coast from Dublin round to Mayo. That's the golden horseshoe in today's Ireland. The rest of us will have to wait for regime change.

[Slim Buddha]

It is odd that only you seem to be perceiving this appalling injustice against rural folk. Everybody else seems to think the whole country is suffering from the incompetence and hubris of this useless government.

So I can only conclude that your complaint is that there are not enough rural TDs in the cabinet to, as i put it earlier, "bring home the bacon".

In other words, this thread is one long whinge that the usual misallocation of resources is not happening in the manner you would like. That this time around, rural Ireland hasn´t got enough TDs in the Cabinet to ensure the usual misallocation occurs and because of the absence of this form of elevated parish pumpery, the sort that has rural Cabinet members personally deliver a passport to a rural constituent using a state car and special branch driver to do so, rural folk are missing out big time.

It is odd but I did not have you down as a supporter of the scheming and thievery that characterised classic FF parish pumpery but your defence of Jackie Healy Rae speaks volumes. I presume therefore that at the next opportunity, you will vote for a party which has a much greater regard for the only determinant that counts in your view of Cabinet formation, the "geographic spread". The criteria which gave us the likes of Mary Coughlan,Willie O´Dea and John O´Donohue et al.

[Baron von Biffo]

It is odd that only you seem to be perceiving this appalling injustice against rural folk. Everybody else seems to think the whole country is suffering from the incompetence and hubris of this useless government.

So I can only conclude that your complaint is that there are not enough rural TDs in the cabinet to, as i put it earlier, "bring home the bacon".

In other words, this thread is one long whinge that the usual misallocation of resources is not happening in the manner you would like. That this time around, rural Ireland hasn´t got enough TDs in the Cabinet to ensure the usual misallocation occurs and because of the absence of this form of elevated parish pumpery, the sort that has rural Cabinet members personally deliver a passport to a rural constituent using a state car and special branch driver to do so, rural folk are missing out big time.

It is odd but I did not have you down as a supporter of the scheming and thievery that characterised classic FF parish pumpery but your defence of Jackie Healy Rae speaks volumes. I presume therefore that at the next opportunity, you will vote for a party which has a much greater regard for the only determinant that counts in your view of Cabinet formation, the "geographic spread". The criteria which gave us the likes of Mary Coughlan,Willie O´Dea and John O´Donohue et al.

In another thread I am critical of the flawed system we have whereby the constituencies of ministers get more than their share of state resources and less of the cuts than they ought to. If you have a look you'll see particular reference to both Mayo and Limerick getting more than their due.

This thread is about the particular consequences of that flawed system at the present time. It deals with individual instances that illustrate how the overwhelmingly urban make-up of the cabinet is leading to rural area taking the worst of the pain of the recession.

I haven't defended Jackie Healy-Rae but pointed out that there's no difference in principle between what he dis and what Tony Gregory did. Your defence of Gregory is the only instance in this thread of defending 'parish pumpery', improper allocation of resources and 'bringing home the bacon'.

[Slim Buddha]

In another thread I am critical of the flawed system we have whereby the constituencies of ministers get more than their share of state resources and less of the cuts than they ought to. If you have a look you'll see particular reference to both Mayo and Limerick getting more than their due.

This thread is about the particular consequences of that flawed system at the present time. It deals with individual instances that illustrate how the overwhelmingly urban make-up of the cabinet is leading to rural area taking the worst of the pain of the recession.

I haven't defended Jackie Healy-Rae but pointed out that there's no difference in principle between what he dis and what Tony Gregory did. Your defence of Gregory is the only instance in this thread of defending 'parish pumpery', improper allocation of resources and 'bringing home the bacon'.

I said repeatedly that in the case of Gregory, it was redressing almost criminal neglect of the north inner city by gombeen dominated administrations over decades. Even you are familiar with the state of that area in 1981. Unlike Healy-Rae, Gregory was never attached at any point to the patronage machine of Fianna Fail.

[Baron von Biffo]

I said repeatedly that in the case of Gregory, it was redressing almost criminal neglect of the north inner city by gombeen dominated administrations over decades. Even you are familiar with the state of that area in 1981.

Yes, I know how you defend Gregory's tending of the parish pump. Supporters of Fox, Healy-Rae, Lowry et al make exactly the same case.

Unlike Healy-Rae, Gregory was never attached at any point to the patronage machine of Fianna Fail.

Can we take it as read that FF has been responsible for every calamity that's befallen the world, from the extinction of the dinosaurs to Riverdance? That will avoid the need to repeat it in every single post.

[Slim Buddha]

Yes, I know how you defend Gregory's tending of the parish pump. Supporters of Fox, Healy-Rae, Lowry et al make exactly the same case.



Can we take it as read that FF has been responsible for every calamity that's befallen the world, from the extinction of the dinosaurs to Riverdance? That will avoid the need to repeat it in every single post.

You may find it a simple exercise in semantics to discuss and excuse treason over morning coffee. I don't. Any group that has sold out its country's sovereignty to the extent that the decisions of the sovereign parliament are in effect validated, or not, by an unelected foreign group, is by any yardstick treasonous. The FF-PD administration was one such group

Your flippancy in your sarcastic response is telling.

[Baron von Biffo]

You may find it a simple exercise in semantics to discuss and excuse treason over morning coffee. I don't. Any group that has sold out its country's sovereignty to the extent that the decisions of the sovereign parliament are in effect validated, or not, by an unelected foreign group, is by any yardstick treasonous. The FF-PD administration was one such group

Your flippancy in your sarcastic response is telling.

Any case you might want to make against FF is lost in your obsessive need to bring them into every single thread using hysterically over the top language.

[Slim Buddha]

Any case you might want to make against FF is lost in your obsessive need to bring them into every single thread using hysterically over the top language.

What do you call wilful loss of sovereignty for the gain of sectional interest?

A "temporary independence adjustment going forward"?

[Baron von Biffo]

What do you call wilful loss of sovereignty for the gain of sectional interest?

A "temporary independence adjustment going forward"?

Why not start a anti-FF thread rather than derail this one?

[Slim Buddha]

Derail it? You come out with your perception of anti--rural bias on the part of this Cabinet. You lament the fact that so few of the current Cabinet represent rural constituencies. The previous Cabinet was awash with rural members. You see part of their remit is to ensure that the misallocation of funds be continued to ensure that funds are diverted to rural constituencies. You did not bring up this issue before because the diverting of funds and the misallocation of resources was TO the country and not, as you perceive it, AWAY FROM, the country.

From the above, I can only conclude that you would be much happier with a FF-PD administration and, given that benchmarking was delivered by them into your lap on top of the massive diversion of resources, who can blame you?