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Thread: Brian Lenihan's legacy

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  1. #1
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    Default Brian Lenihan's legacy

    It's fitting that there be a thread to objectively (insofar as that is possible)discuss Brian Lenihan's contribution to economic and political life, separate from the circumstances of his death. This should be from a historical perspective, and I'd invite posters to be as candid as possible while maintaining a decent level of respect for the dead.

    To give my own perspective, I feel he was the worst Minister for Finance the country has ever had. Decisions that he took and recommended to the Cabinet resulted in real hardship for communities throughout the country, while the way the banking crisis was handled has ended up with a mountain of debt being placed on the shoulders of ordinary citizens. Unemployment increased as a result of austerity policies and the FF/GP government took no steps to stop the increase in unemployment, while simultaneously cutting the young harder and increasing college fees, something that froze many out of education.
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    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class'
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    "Can I ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side?"
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    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Brave Brian, upon realising the state of the economy's health failed to adhere to the most basic medical principle: primum non nocere- first do no harm.

    The bank guarantee will be his legacy.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Brian Lenihan performed some great work for some of the people of Ireland and four tough budgets for the rest of us. His influence will live on in the debts our children and grandchildren will have to pay.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

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    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    He was the most cunning, deceitful, and economically ruinous politician our country has had the misfortune to suffer.

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    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    He was the most cunning, deceitful, and economically ruinous politician our country has had the misfortune to suffer.
    'cunning' & 'deceitful' though are requirements for being a Minister in any Fianna Fail government.

    I just wonder if it was right to have such a gravely ill man in such a high government position ,,, ?
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

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    Default Maidir Le: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    I find it very difficult to separate the man from the policies anyway. It takes some man to land the country in so much trouble only to save him and his own. Like everyone else I have no illusions about the big C and the hurt its causes in Ireland. I still believe he should have stepped aside after that x-mas. From the beginning I always felt FF had used it to their advantage and I have no doubt they are capable. The circus after Ursula Halligan rightly broke the story was sickening. A mix of the usual catholic guff with and extra helping of respect your betters. It was easy to praise him for his bravery while he had access to the best care in the world, health at home was slashed over and over.

    But worse and most damaging, the free ride economic policy received was ridiculous and he got no tough questions as NAMA and the rest arrived. There was no media/political criticism or scrutiny until the mask slipped last year and by then we were ruined. He was well enough to stay in office he was well enough to take the heat and so many once again failed when they we're needed. I have no doubt FF knowingly used it, none. All their friends were looked after while Lenihan was seemingly "off limits".

    The evidence was there when he committed the biggest sin of all and landed the knife in back of the FF rebels during the heave. The Phoenix summed it up nicely in the humour sections a month back. When Lenihan made his too little too late attack on Cowen after the election they had skit where Lenihan said Cowen would thank him one day. The golf courses of Ireland wouldn't have been able to cope had the safety valve of emigration not been called into action once again.

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    Default Re: Maidir Le: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE View Post
    I find it very difficult to separate the man from the policies anyway. It takes some man to land the country in so much trouble only to save him and his own. Like everyone else I have no illusions about the big C and the hurt its causes in Ireland. I still believe he should have stepped aside after that x-mas. From the beginning I always felt FF had used it to their advantage and I have no doubt they are capable. The circus after Ursula Halligan rightly broke the story was sickening. A mix of the usual catholic guff with and extra helping of respect your betters. It was easy to praise him for his bravery while he had access to the best care in the world, health at home was slashed over and over.

    But worse and most damaging, the free ride economic policy received was ridiculous and he got no tough questions as NAMA and the rest arrived. There was no media/political criticism or scrutiny until the mask slipped last year and by then we were ruined. He was well enough to stay in office he was well enough to take the heat and so many once again failed when they we're needed. I have no doubt FF knowingly used it, none. All their friends were looked after while Lenihan was seemingly "off limits".

    The evidence was there when he committed the biggest sin of all and landed the knife in back of the FF rebels during the heave. The Phoenix summed it up nicely in the humour sections a month back. When Lenihan made his too little too late attack on Cowen after the election they had skit where Lenihan said Cowen would thank him one day. The golf courses of Ireland wouldn't have been able to cope had the safety valve of emigration not been called into action once again.
    +1. Lenihan's continuing as MOF after the cancer story broke had a real whiff of 'hit me now with me babby in me arms' about it. Also, given the circumstances, no other FF bigwig would have wanted the job, so Lenny was the perfect expedient. And I betcha now once he's cold in the grave a couple of weeks he'll become the perfect scapegoat for all of FF's failings over that period in govt. He'll get blamed for everything and better still, he'll be in no position to answer back.
    That said, I do offer my sympathies to his family, particularly his children, as I can empathise with their current plight - I too lost one of my parents while still a teenager, and it really does hurt. That experience does mark you for life, and though time is a great healer you can still find yourself crying over your parent's untimely death many years later.
    "It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth; there is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts."
    — Buenaventura Durruti

  8. #8

    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Two questions really ... will there be a state funeral in Brussels? And will there be an unseemly dash to set up a collection fund in Fianna Fail? I hear funerals in the Lenihan family can be quite profitable.

    (Not interested in the canonisation of passing crims by the way so don't bother remonstrating with me. Far as I am concerned he has escaped a firing squad).

    Not going to adopt any false notion of respect for a man I loathed.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    I shall hoist quite a few glasses in his memory tonight!

    Achievements?

    Well he was born into the right family!

    He was often foisted up as an intellectual. This only showed the subnormal intellects of those who called him so and the absolute gullibility of those who believed this nonsense.

    He was more than a disaster as a politician, he was a downright traitor (remember, you cannot slander the dead and besides, the truth is not slander). He most certainly took after that other traitor, his father, in that respect.

    I find myself needing to say something good about him, due to my upbringing. Let me say this: With his passing, the world got a little lighter today.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Seán Ryan View Post
    I shall hoist quite a few glasses in his memory tonight!

    Achievements?

    Well he was born into the right family!

    He was often foisted up as an intellectual. This only showed the subnormal intellects of those who called him so and the absolute gullibility of those who believed this nonsense.

    He was more than a disaster as a politician, he was a downright traitor (remember, you cannot slander the dead and besides, the truth is not slander). He most certainly took after that other traitor, his father, in that respect.

    I find myself needing to say something good about him, due to my upbringing. Let me say this: With his passing, the world got a little lighter today.

    You put it better than I could have.

    As for having a good thing to say about him, I suspect that his recent criticisms of the EU weren't entirely inspired by saving his own reputation - a belated feeling of guilt pushing him towards telling all ? I for one can't imagine, given their potential losses, that certain euro-neighbours weren't pulling the strings in relation to the Guarantee. If Lenihan had decided to be fully honest even after the crime I'd have a modicum of respect for him. As it is, he falls short.
    He always struck me as a man whose personal dermination eclipsed both his capacity for self-judgement and any kind of a conscience (bar the token charity work, which is all I see the newsrags offering in their Princess Di-reflex opinion pieces.)
    RIP. But a traitor ? Yes.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    I've already seen statements from people saying 'at least he took the decisions he thought was right for the country'.

    No he fuppin' didn't. Who ever he was representing or looking after in September 2008 it bloody well wasn't the country.

    I know that much.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy - Cui bono?


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    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    I've already seen statements from people saying 'at least he took the decisions he thought was right for the country'.

    No he fuppin' didn't. Who ever he was representing or looking after in September 2008 it bloody well wasn't the country.

    I know that much.
    Spot on. He just couldn't let down the people who he went to school with and kept him and his Parthy in the style they're accustomed to. A class warrior was our Lenny, but he sure as hell wasn't fighting for our class.
    "It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth; there is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts."
    — Buenaventura Durruti

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    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by antiestablishmentarian View Post
    It's fitting that there be a thread to objectively (insofar as that is possible)discuss Brian Lenihan's contribution to economic and political life, separate from the circumstances of his death. This should be from a historical perspective, and I'd invite posters to be as candid as possible while maintaining a decent level of respect for the dead.

    To give my own perspective, I feel he was the worst Minister for Finance the country has ever had. Decisions that he took and recommended to the Cabinet resulted in real hardship for communities throughout the country, while the way the banking crisis was handled has ended up with a mountain of debt being placed on the shoulders of ordinary citizens. Unemployment increased as a result of austerity policies and the FF/GP government took no steps to stop the increase in unemployment, while simultaneously cutting the young harder and increasing college fees, something that froze many out of education.
    Nowhere near the worst. Charlie McCreevy, with his contempt for objective advice, his 'spend it when I have it' approach, his emphasis on tax cutting over reform or investment, did far more damage. I think history will agree with Garrett Fitzgerald when he identified the decisions of McCreevy as the core reason why everything went so catastrophically wrong.

    I don't think history will be too kind to Lenihan either, but I think he did better than some others would have done in the same position. Just imagine if Cowan, Ahern or McCreevy had been in Finance in 2007. The Bank Guarantee was an appalling decision (especially the decision to 100% cover the bondholders, this was completely unnecessary even if you bought into the logic of the guarantee), but I don't see any other Finance Minister from any of the main parties doing anything different in the circumstances, they all bought into the 'received wisdom' about the need to protect the banks above all else. I think that in the aftermath he did a reasonable job in trying to stabilize things, but it was all too late then. He was actually quite good as a 'front man' for Ireland, it helped distract everyone from noticing that Cowan had vanished into some bog hole when the going got rough.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Brian Lenihan's legacy

    His words... "We all partied" demostrates his attitudes towards us and hence his four tough budgets. He doesn't give a damn about us. He went to proceed to cut the ones that was sorely needed (ie SNA et al) and afffected us but not the upper wealthy tier. I think he took the buck passed on to him by Cowen.

    However, i have relatives and also a parent as well who died from Cancer, my thoughts and sympathies goes to his family.


    However his legacy was that ' we all partied' & 'we have turned the corner' and the banking guarantee. History won't be too kind on him or Cowen.

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