Fracking and the Environment: Exploration licenses granted to search for shale gas in Lough Allen area

[Count Bobulescu]

That surely is a tautological statement ?



It's interesting to see that he still adopts a subjective, not a scientific, approach.

You'll have to take that up with the Guardian.

[New Vision]

When I began posting in this thread I posted material that was both positive and negative toward fracking as I found them, in order to express both viewpoints.

Then New Vision began posting with a missionary zeal only material that is negative toward fracking. In order to maintain balance I felt it best to post contrary material. Once I did that NV tried to paint me as a “friend of fracking”.

Truth is, I got interested in the subject because I was “opposed” to fracking. The more I’ve learned the less opposed I’ve become. I’ve concluded that the opponents who have genuine concerns about water contamination and other issues, have in many cases extrapolated the negative claims beyond what I consider reasonable. That is in no way to minimize the genuine concerns of the opponents.

I believe the industry should be tightly regulated and that industry complaints in that department are, just like their opponents, overblown.

Now, I post mostly only pro fracking material because I believe NV is either incapable of or unwilling to take a balanced approach.

What you call "balanced" was more or less a mix of poor mainstream media + petroleum industry propaganda. Now we mainly see industry propaganda as your references.

And, of course, I'm not willing to take that kind of "balanced approach" as you wish.

[New Vision]

No Fracking Ireland Present a night with Greg Palast
Vultures' Picnic: In Pursuit of Petroleum Pigs, Power Pirates and High-Finance Predators.

Bush Hotel
Carrick-on Shannon
8pm
Mon 2nd July 2012

"Doggedly independent, undaunted by power. Palast's stories bite, they're so relevant they threaten to alter history"
-Chicago Tribune

Palast is best known as the investigative reporter who uncovered how Katherine Harris purged thousands of African-Americans from Florida voters rolls in the 2000 Presidential Election.

Author of the New York Times and international bestsellers, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy and Armed Madhouse, Palast is Patron of the Trinity College Philosophical Society, an honor previously held by Jonathan Swift and Oscar Wilde.

"A cross between Sam Spade and Sherlock Holmes" (Jim Hightower, The Nation), Greg Palast turned his skills to journalism after two decades as a top investigator of corporate fraud and racketeering. Palast's reports appear on BBC's Newsnight and in Britain's Guardian, Rolling Stone and Harper's.

Palast directed the US' government's largest racketeering case in history (that garnered a $4.3 billion jury award) and the investigation of the Exxon Valdez.

Palast is recipient of the George Orwell Courage in Journalism Prize for his BBC television documentary, Bush Family Fortunes.

With his most recent publication Vulture's Picnic - the New York Times bestselling author of Armed Madhouse offers a globetrotting, Sam Spade-style investigation that blows the lid off the oil industry, the banking industry, and the governmental agencies that aren't regulating either.

This is the story of the corporate vultures that feed on the weak and ruin our planet in the process-a story that spans the globe and decades.

For Vultures' Picnic Palast built a team that reads like a casting call for a Hollywood thriller - a Swiss multilingual investigator, a punk journalist, and a gonzo cameraman-to reveal how environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill, the Exxon Valdez, and lesser-known tragedies such as Tatitlek and Torrey Canyon are caused by corporate corruption, failed legislation, and, most interestingly, veiled connections between the financial industry and energy titans.

He is bringing his insights into the global hydrofracking rush to Ireland at the request of local anti-fracking campaigners. He, as a long term resident of New York, has had a front row seat in a conflict raging there between multinational oil and gas companies and a mass campaign who do not want the Marcellus Shale to be fracked.

[Count Bobulescu]

What you call "balanced" was more or less a mix of poor mainstream media + petroleum industry propaganda. Now we mainly see industry propaganda as your references.

And, of course, I'm not willing to take that kind of "balanced approach" as you wish.

What, in your opinion, that I have posted constitutes "poor" mainstream media?

What in your opinion, is "better" mainstream media?

[New Vision]

What, in your opinion, that I have posted constitutes "poor" mainstream media?

What in your opinion, is "better" mainstream media?

Maybe it is common in the US to make up your mind by the opinion of the representatives of each side, even more by their performance, and not by the facts and independent information (which hardly exists over there).

When you started posting in this thread I did see some quotes from NYT articles, Pro Publica etc. But since you have been reacting to my posts your sources you are building your argumentation on have changed. We see National "Public" Radio, Newser ("read less know more") etc,

Are you only here to oppose the wings (no matter what side)? Or do you have a real opinion (which might even change again...).

I'm a campaigner against hydraulic shale gas fracturing for sure. And I have pointed out my reasons for that. There are scientists on the field - independent from the petroleum industry - who came to the same conclusion.

At least I'm not pretending to be "neutral", because I'm not. And I'm honest with that.

[New Vision]

AgriFood Study

Ireland’s Agriculture and Food Industry and the Shale Gas Question

This study presents an industry snapshot, focusing on the Dairy and the Infant Milk Formula sectors as examples.

Against the background of current concerns about Shale Gas Hydraulic Fracturing, it looks at how this proposal might impact on the Industry, and the reputation of this country and our ability to retain and increase market share.

It asks whether Ireland is in a position to reach a sufficiently informed decision on Shale Gas at this time.

...

[read more]

[New Vision]

Fracking Matters Newsletter 33-12 (68)

[New Vision]

...The more I’ve learned the less opposed I’ve become...

See. Exactly the opposite happened to me.

I'm convinced that fracking is not only just holding up the inevitable transition to an energy supply which is based on 100% renewables. Fracking is such a thread to our environment and livelihood (probably worse than tar sand oil) that we should not suck out these last reserves of gas for just a short term profit. The long term consequences are too dear.

[New Vision]

Independent Analysis Confirms That Hydraulic Fracturing Caused Drinking Water Contamination In Wyoming

A recent study from the Environmental Protection Agency showing that chemicals from hydraulic fracturing had contaminated groundwater has just been validated by an independent hydrology expert.

The impact of natural gas drilling — particularly hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking” — on drinking water and groundwater has been heavily debated. It has also been one of the most serious PR issues for the oil and gas industry.

In December 2011, the Environmental Protection Agency found official evidence that poisonous chemicals from fracking had contaminated water near drill rigs in Pavillion, Wyoming. That study has now been backed up by an independent expert. In a report released today, commissioned by several environmental groups, Dr. Tom Myers writes that:

After consideration of the evidence presented in the EPA report and in URS (2009 and 2010), it is clear that hydraulic fracturing (fracking [Kramer 2011]) has caused pollution of the Wind River formation and aquifer… The EPA’s conclusion is sound.

Myers then details the Pavillion area’s unique geology and water pathways, as well as the shoddy construction of the wells that likely contributed to water contamination. He also outlines a number of ways that EPA can improve on its analysis and continue to collect critical data.

When EPA released the draft findings last December, the natural gas industry and its elected allies were quick to pounce and attacked it as “scientifically questionable,” “reckless,” and lacking “a definitive conclusion.”

Importantly, Myers notes in his report that:

The situation at Pavillion is not an analogue for other gas plays because the geology and regulatory framework may be different.

Nevertheless, it is a reminder for politicians like Oklahoma Senator James Inhofe who continue to claim that there has “never been one case — documented case — of groundwater contamination.”

However, the lack of public data makes it difficult to gather evidence of drinking water contamination. As New York Times reporter Ian Urbina noted in an investigation last August, researchers often are:

…unable to investigate many suspected cases because their details were sealed from the public when energy companies settled lawsuits with landowners.

The oil and gas industry is exempt from portions of a number of environmental laws, including the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Clean Water Act, and the Clean Air Act.

Pro Publica puts it like this:


The EPA’s First Fracking Rules — Limited and Delayed


Study Rebuts Industry Stance That Frack Fluids Can’t Taint Water

Chemically treated drilling fluid can migrate through thousands of feet of rock and endanger water supplies, said a hydrologist whose research calls into question the safety of hydraulic fracturing for natural gas.

The fluids can migrate faster that previously thought, Tom Myers, a Reno, Nevada, researcher, said Wednesday. His study, published in the online journal "Ground Water" on April 17, says fluids can reach shallow drinking-water aquifers in as little as three years.

"If contaminants reach natural fractures under pressure, the upward flow has the potential to be enhanced greatly," said Myers, an independent consultant who has worked for conservation groups and governments. "It can flow upward if there’s a pathway and unless it’s completely impermeable, there’s always a pathway. It’s just a question of how long it takes."

=> Potential Contaminant Pathways from Hydraulically Fractured Shale to Aquifers

The whole study available on scribd.com


The title of this discussion is just a farce keeping in mind that shale gas has a carbon footprint worse than coal => The Cornell Team Redux: Shale Gas a Disaster for Climate



This has been confirmed by scientists from NOAA and the University of Colorado => Air sampling reveals high emissions from gas field (Nature News)

Compare to other claims of the industry, about 4% of the gas is lost to the atmosphere.




The industry is lying about the real scale of impacts hydraulic shale gas fracturing is causing.

[Count Bobulescu]

Maybe it is common in the US to make up your mind by the opinion of the representatives of each side, even more by their performance, and not by the facts and independent information (which hardly exists over there).

Seems to me, a significant portion of the sources you rely upon originate in the US, which kinda undermines your claim.

When you started posting in this thread I did see some quotes from NYT articles, Pro Publica etc. But since you have been reacting to my posts your sources you are building your argumentation on have changed. We see National "Public" Radio, Newser ("read less know more") etc,

NPR and PBS are regularly voted “most trusted” news outlets in the US.

Are you only here to oppose the wings (no matter what side)? Or do you have a real opinion (which might even change again...).

I generally oppose bias, and I try to keep an open mind amenable to persuasion.

I'm a campaigner against hydraulic shale gas fracturing for sure. And I have pointed out my reasons for that. There are scientists on the field - independent from the petroleum industry - who came to the same conclusion.

Sure, just as there are scientists who have reached opposite conclusions. I’ve said before, at this point you can find a study to tell you almost anything you want to hear.

At least I'm not pretending to be "neutral", because I'm not. And I'm honest with that.

I’ve made my position clear. Are you suggesting I’m being dishonest?

[Count Bobulescu]

See. Exactly the opposite happened to me.

I'm convinced that fracking is not only just holding up the inevitable transition to an energy supply which is based on 100% renewables. Fracking is such a thread to our environment and livelihood (probably worse than tar sand oil) that we should not suck out these last reserves of gas for just a short term profit. The long term consequences are too dear.

I too wish we had 100% renewables, but don’t see that happening in the short term. Maybe in 30-50 years. In the meantime we should use the next best options of which shale gas is high on the list.

[fluffybiscuits]

I’ve made my position clear. Are you suggesting I’m being dishonest?

I think in fairness to New Vision he is just asking if you are taking a stance idealogically or because you just want to show the flip side of the coin for the hell of it. (No harm challenging views CB! Im on the fence mate )

Im not a great lover of fracking. Their mailing list is fantastic, they are on the ball

[Count Bobulescu]

I think in fairness to New Vision he is just asking if you are taking a stance idealogically or because you just want to show the flip side of the coin for the hell of it. (No harm challenging views CB! Im on the fence mate )

Im not a great lover of fracking. Their mailing list is fantastic, they are on the ball

That’s fair enough, but I’ve been down that road before with NV on this thread. He doesn’t seem to want to believe me.

[C. Flower]

Greg Palast is touring Ireland giving talks on fracking in Ireland.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/102035


Enniskillen Monday 2nd July 1pm
Carrick-On-Shannon Monday 2nd July 8pm
Dublin Connolly Books Tuesday 3rd July 1pm
Dublin The Ireland Institute Tue 3rd July 7.30 pm

Greg Palast is best known as the investigative reporter who uncovered how Katherine Harris purged thousands of African-Americans from Florida voters rolls in the 2000 Presidential Election.

Author of the New York Times bestsellers, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy and Armed Madhouse, Palast is Patron of the Trinity College Philosophical Society, an honor previously held by Jonathan Swift and Oscar Wilde.

"A cross between Sam Spade and Sherlock Holmes" (Jim Hightower, The Nation), Greg Palast turned his skills to journalism after two decades as a top investigator of corporate fraud and racketeering. Palast's reports appear on BBC's Newsnight and in Britain's Guardian, Rolling Stone and Harper's.

Palast directed the US' government's largest racketeering case in history (that garnered a $4.3 billion jury award) and the investigation of the Exxon Valdez.

Palast is recipient of the George Orwell Courage in Journalism Prize for his BBC television documentary, Bush Family Fortunes.

With his most recent publication Vulture's Picnic - the New York Times bestselling author of Armed Madhouse offers a globetrotting, Sam Spade-style investigation that blows the lid off the oil industry, the banking industry, and the governmental agencies that aren't regulating either. This is the story of the corporate vultures that feed on the weak and ruin our planet in the process-a story that spans the globe and decades.

For Vultures' Picnic Palast built a team that reads like a casting call for a Hollywood thriller - a Swiss multilingual investigator, a punk journalist, and a gonzo cameraman-to reveal how environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill, the Exxon Valdez, and lesser-known tragedies such as Tatitlek and Torrey Canyon are caused by corporate corruption, failed legislation, and, most interestingly, veiled connections between the financial industry and energy titans.

He is bringing his insights into the global hydrofracking rush to Ireland at the request of local anti-fracking campaigners. He, as a long term resident of New York, has had a front row seat in a conflict raging there between multinational oil and gas companies and a mass of grassroots campaigners who do not want the Marcellus Shale to be fracked.

The first chapter of his latest book is available here: http://www.gregpalast.com/vulturespi...s/Vult...r.pdf
Independent news about Fracking in Ireland available here: http://www.indymedia.ie/openwire?search_text=Fracking
Related Link: http://www.gregpalast.com/

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...nded-regulated

The Royal Academy of Engineering and the Royal Society have said that fracking should be an option and used throughout the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...rthquakes.html