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Thread: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

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    Default Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Morgan Kelly is back with a piece in this morning's Irish Times:
    OPINION: Ireland is heading for bankruptcy, which would be catastrophic for a country that trades on its reputation as a safe place to do business, writes MORGAN KELLY
    WITH THE Irish Government on track to owe a quarter of a trillion euro by 2014, a prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable. By the time the dust settles, Ireland’s last remaining asset, its reputation as a safe place from which to conduct business, will have been destroyed.
    Ireland is facing economic ruin.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...296372123.html

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    A completely new take on the events leading up to the IMF/EU rescue:
    [Ireland’s Last Stand began less shambolically than you might expect. The IMF, which believes that lenders should pay for their stupidity before it has to reach into its pocket, presented the Irish with a plan to haircut €30 billion of unguaranteed bonds by two-thirds on average. Lenihan was overjoyed, according to a source who was there, telling the IMF team: “You are Ireland’s salvation.”
    The deal was torpedoed from an unexpected direction. At a conference call with the G7 finance ministers, the haircut was vetoed by US treasury secretary Timothy Geithner who, as his payment of $13 billion from government-owned AIG to Goldman Sachs showed, believes that bankers take priority over taxpayers. The only one to speak up for the Irish was UK chancellor George Osborne, but Geithner, as always, got his way. An instructive, if painful, lesson in the extent of US soft power, and in who our friends really are.
    The negotiations went downhill from there. On one side was the European Central Bank, unabashedly representing Ireland’s creditors and insisting on full repayment of bank bonds. On the other was the IMF, arguing that Irish taxpayers would be doing well to balance their government’s books, let alone repay the losses of private banks. And the Irish? On the side of the ECB, naturally.
    Last edited by PaddyJoe; 07-05-2011 at 12:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe McGillycuddy View Post
    Morgan Kelly is back with a piece in this morning's Irish Times:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...296372123.html
    I was wondering when we would hear from him.

    Brilliant - but is infuriating the way he engages so rarely. Glad to see NAMAwinelake credited as "by far the best source on the Irish economy."

    This is what he proposes. Similar was proposed in our "bullied Ireland" thread last year.
    National survival requires that Ireland walk away from the bailout. This in turn requires the Government to do two things: disengage from the banks, and bring its budget into balance immediately.

    First the banks. While the ECB does not want to rescue the Irish banks, it cannot let them collapse either and start a wave of panic that sweeps across Europe. So, every time one of you expresses your approval of the Irish banks by moving your savings to a foreign-owned bank, the Irish bank goes and replaces your money with emergency borrowing from the ECB or the Irish Central Bank. Their current borrowings are €160 billion.

    The original bailout plan was that the loan portfolios of Irish banks would be sold off to repay these borrowings. However, foreign banks know that many of these loans, mortgages especially, will eventually default, and were not interested. As a result, the ECB finds itself with the Irish banks wedged uncomfortably far up its fundament, and no way of dislodging them.

    This allows Ireland to walk away from the banking system by returning the Nama assets to the banks, and withdrawing its promissory notes in the banks. The ECB can then learn the basic economic truth that if you lend €160 billion to insolvent banks backed by an insolvent state, you are no longer a creditor: you are the owner. At some stage the ECB can take out an eraser and, where “Emergency Loan” is written in the accounts of Irish banks, write “Capital” instead. When it chooses to do so is its problem, not ours.

    At a stroke, the Irish Government can halve its debt to a survivable €110 billion. The ECB can do nothing to the Irish banks in retaliation without triggering a catastrophic panic in Spain and across the rest of Europe. The only way Europe can respond is by cutting off funding to the Irish Government.

    So the second strand of national survival is to bring the Government budget immediately into balance. The reason for governments to run deficits in recessions is to smooth out temporary dips in economic activity. However, our current slump is not temporary: Ireland bet everything that house prices would rise forever, and lost. To borrow so that senior civil servants like me can continue to enjoy salaries twice as much as our European counterparts makes no sense, macroeconomic or otherwise.

    Cutting Government borrowing to zero immediately is not painless but it is the only way of disentangling ourselves from the loan sharks who are intent on making an example of us. In contrast, the new Government’s current policy of lying on the ground with a begging bowl and hoping that someone takes pity on us does not make for a particularly strong negotiating position. By bringing our budget immediately into balance, we focus attention on the fact that Ireland’s problems stem almost entirely from the activities of six privately owned banks, while freeing ourselves to walk away from these poisonous institutions. Just as importantly, it sends a signal to the rest of the world that Ireland – which 20 years ago showed how a small country could drag itself out of poverty through the energy and hard work of its inhabitants, but has since fallen among thieves and their political fixers – is back and means business.

    Of course, we all know that this will never happen. Irish politicians are too used to being rewarded by Brussels to start fighting against it, even if it is a matter of national survival. It is easier to be led along blindfold until the noose is slipped around our necks and we are kicked through the trapdoor into bankruptcy.

    The destruction wrought by the bankruptcy will not just be economic but political. Just as the Lenihan bailout destroyed Fianna Fáil, so the Noonan bankruptcy will destroy Fine Gael and Labour, leaving them as reviled and mistrusted as their predecessors. And that will leave Ireland in the interesting situation where the economic crisis has chewed up and spat out all of the State’s constitutional parties. The last election was reassuringly dull and predictable but the next, after the trauma and chaos of the bankruptcy, will be anything but.
    This is a very good starting point for discussion.

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    'The destruction wrought by the bankruptcy will not just be economic but political. Just as the Lenihan bailout destroyed Fianna Fáil, so the Noonan bankruptcy will destroy Fine Gael and Labour, leaving them as reviled and mistrusted as their predecessors. And that will leave Ireland in the interesting situation where the economic crisis has chewed up and spat out all of the State’s constitutional parties. The last election was reassuringly dull and predictable but the next, after the trauma and chaos of the bankruptcy, will be anything but.' Lets hope so. Im really looking into autonomism and need to get me hands on some of negris books. I dont believe Ireland has an autonomist party yet..

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Honohan comes across as the villain of the piece here. Kelly seems to be saying that Lenihan had a strategy to push the EU into recapitalising the Irish banks and that Honohan torpedoed it with his call to Morning Ireland.
    From previous articles it appears that Kelly has very high level sources in the DOF.

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    Default Maidir Le: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Just home. Not going to read this till tomorrow,


















































































    if there is a tomorrow

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe McGillycuddy View Post
    Honohan comes across as the villain of the piece here. Kelly seems to be saying that Lenihan had a strategy to push the EU into recapitalising the Irish banks and that Honohan torpedoed it with his call to Morning Ireland.
    From previous articles it appears that Kelly has very high level sources in the DOF.
    That makes sense.

    There is some useful information in what Kelly says, but he fails to address the economic devastation that would come about from an immediate budget cut to balance the books and the finger pointing at individuals is really at this stage unhelpful. No individual created this situation, it's the result of being a "small open economy" in a sick old world financial system.

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    They if "restructure" Greece's debt it triggers the credit default swaps... personally I wonder about just $4B of net notional outstanding.
    What is new in Kelly's article is that Timothy Geithner (his father was a CIA boss in SE Asia for whom Obama's mother worked *political trivia*) put his foot down against restructuring of Irish debt.

    Obama is generally hostile to Europe and Ireland and has no time for schmoozing us.
    The visit to Ireland is in part to brand himself as less African to the US electorate, but he may well throw a few words at us about paying up.

    There seems to be a lot of nervousness of the CDS's. Is there anyone who can throw any light on this ?

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Painful is how he describes the budgetary side of things but either way this is going to berling e painful.

    EMU does not suit Irish monetary policy that is the plain and simple answer to this and no amount of hope will change that.

    As unpalatable as it may be the UK are our biggest trading partners we could re-join sterling whilst fully recognising Ireland as an Independent State (unlike previously) with it's own monetary policy we could export our way out of a lot of difficulty. Might even manage to get a big reduction on the UK (bailout) interest rate.

    This is of course from an economic point of view but I realise the unpalatable political side of this would be much more difficult.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    It seems to me that if Ireland is to experience austerity for a generation whether we stay in the Eurozone or not then I'd rather the austerity at least came with sovereign independence.

    I'm quite alarmed at the suggestion that we should join sterling. I'm not up for Ireland's economy being determined by the Bank of England any more than Deutsche Bank.

    We have to make long term decisions now based on current circumstances and what we can predict of the immediate future. Ireland has advantages over other European nations which are not currently being assessed at all. These are;

    (1) Europe and the world generally is facing food shortages and agricultural commodity prices on the up due to demand from overpopulation and protectionism from major trading nations in that sphere. Ireland is a potential larder with its fertile soil and low population density. This is an advantage and an emerging security risk of economic anschluss at some point in the near to middle future.

    (2) We have unhindered access to a huge natural resource in the Atlantic and may be able to take advantage of mariculture in ways as yet being developed by scientific research.

    (3) Because of our relatively low density population in the rural areas we have the ability to have an economy which can take advantage of the emerging carbon credit market- this should NOT be signed away for a pittance in a fire sale but should be regarded as a national asset. There is no reason why profit from carbon credit markets/forestry should be handed to private concerns.

    All of these emerging factors clearly say to me that we should retain our independence at all costs.

    These natural advantages advancing almost unperceived in the background will be obvious about Ireland to some neighbouring overcrowded nations soon enough and I am beginning to wonder what with the Queen's visit and the westbrit element creeping out of the woodwork whether there is a certain amount of almost 16th century eyeing of Irish assets going on.

    I'd see it burn rather than become a colony again.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Yes we have resources Captain but they have not been utilised and will be sold off soon sometimes we have to take emergency actions to protect ourselves.You can see the Government we have and putting the needs of the Irish Nation first is not on the agenda. We will soon be paying some other Nation for the air we breathe.We had money swishing around the economy as if there was no tomorrow yet nobody utilised our assets whilst the chance was there. In actual fact they were spending much of their time giving many of them away.

    Our Sovereignty has been given away long ago and I'm certainly not advocating that we take it back and give it away again we would still retain our Independence but whether people like it or not it makes sense to trade with your biggest trading partner in the same currency. It could be done for say a period of five years whilst we rebuild, utilise our assets and prove our strengths. After that period we introduce the punt nua which would get a much warmer reception once our abilities were proven.

    The punt nua won't survive six months on the open market under present conditions and will be viciously attacked for our "rebellion" Let's face facts here this is "economic warfare" and that has been proven by us having been put on the "frontline" to take the hit for the rest of "Europe"

    America even went against us but of course that's because they don't want to be left holding all those financial babies created by Goldman Sachs and friends, if not sterling then we need to look elsewhere whilst retaining Independence.

    Our other alternative is to sit back and wait for Europe to forgive us and remain under their control forever.

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Well if we are discussing aternative masters to Germany I'd prefer we didn't automatically assume England.

    I'd rather see us hand Shannon and a couple of west coast ports to China or Russia in return for a debt cancellation using some of that $2trillion the Chinese are holding and which they've signalled they want to use abroad for strategic investment.

    We're already allowing the Americans to use Shannon as a strategic resource whenever they want and we're not even being paid anything for it. The Chinese or Russian navy would pay handsomely for a strategically placed airbase at Shannon plus a deepwater port like Shannon Foynes.

    If we are thinking strategically we might as well think big. Mr Geithner might change his tune very fast on Irish debt if he thought we were about to give the Russians or Chinese the base they've been accustomed to using for refuelling en route to the States.

    Stuff the UK- they are in debt as much as Ireland is relatively speaking and they are not going to allow Ireland to rejoin sterling and then devalue their currency for us.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    It seems to me that if Ireland is to experience austerity for a generation whether we stay in the Eurozone or not then I'd rather the austerity at least came with sovereign independence.

    I'm quite alarmed at the suggestion that we should join sterling. I'm not up for Ireland's economy being determined by the Bank of England any more than Deutsche Bank.

    We have to make long term decisions now based on current circumstances and what we can predict of the immediate future. Ireland has advantages over other European nations which are not currently being assessed at all. These are;

    (1) Europe and the world generally is facing food shortages and agricultural commodity prices on the up due to demand from overpopulation and protectionism from major trading nations in that sphere. Ireland is a potential larder with its fertile soil and low population density. This is an advantage and an emerging security risk of economic anschluss at some point in the near to middle future.

    (2) We have unhindered access to a huge natural resource in the Atlantic and may be able to take advantage of mariculture in ways as yet being developed by scientific research.

    (3) Because of our relatively low density population in the rural areas we have the ability to have an economy which can take advantage of the emerging carbon credit market- this should NOT be signed away for a pittance in a fire sale but should be regarded as a national asset. There is no reason why profit from carbon credit markets/forestry should be handed to private concerns.

    All of these emerging factors clearly say to me that we should retain our independence at all costs.

    These natural advantages advancing almost unperceived in the background will be obvious about Ireland to some neighbouring overcrowded nations soon enough and I am beginning to wonder what with the Queen's visit and the westbrit element creeping out of the woodwork whether there is a certain amount of almost 16th century eyeing of Irish assets going on.

    I'd see it burn rather than become a colony again.
    Great post.

    We also have perfect conditions for this, currently testing in Italy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl_tq...layer_embedded

    edit:
    also http://vimeo.com/8172869

    interesting also that the creator of the laddermill project (second link) posted this recently.

    http://translate.google.com/translat...w.ockels.nl%2F

    off-topic I know, but worth looking at when time permits
    Last edited by boxty; 07-05-2011 at 09:58 AM. Reason: added more links

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    Well if we are discussing aternative masters to Germany I'd prefer we didn't automatically assume England.

    I'd rather see us hand Shannon and a couple of west coast ports to China or Russia in return for a debt cancellation using some of that $2trillion the Chinese are holding and which they've signalled they want to use abroad for strategic investment.

    We're already allowing the Americans to use Shannon as a strategic resource whenever they want and we're not even being paid anything for it. The Chinese or Russian navy would pay handsomely for a strategically placed airbase at Shannon plus a deepwater port like Shannon Foynes.

    If we are thinking strategically we might as well think big. Mr Geithner might change his tune very fast on Irish debt if he thought we were about to give the Russians or Chinese the base they've been accustomed to using for refuelling en route to the States.

    Stuff the UK- they are in debt as much as Ireland is relatively speaking and they are not going to allow Ireland to rejoin sterling and then devalue their currency for us.
    Yes we could go along those lines too at least we are starting to come up with solutions to getting out of this mess. It's the standing back like wimps sucking it all up that is getting on my nerves.There are many alternatives and we have plenty of cards it's just we don't have the right players dealing those cards in our interests.

    (BTW I think sterling is going under anyway so I don't think they would have to devalue it for us)

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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly: 'A prolonged and chaotic national bankruptcy is becoming inevitable'

    Best line of the article..

    Back when the euro was being planned in the mid-1990s, it never occurred to anyone that cautious, stodgy banks like AIB and Bank of Ireland, run by faintly dim former rugby players, could ever borrow tens of billions overseas, and lose it all on dodgy property loans.
    "The land Coillte Teo is now selling for development was given to them by the State in 1988 to ensure that our woodlands were run commercially, not to enable them to sell the family silver to service bank loans".
    - Friends of the Irish Environment, 28.04.2003

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