The AV Referendum

[Kilsally]

I note that there is no mention of the AV referendum on 5th May here on the forums.

Currently I know that Sinn Fein & SDLPare urging Yes2AV
http://www.yestofairervotes.org/
http://www.yes2av.org.uk/

Whilst the DUP are urging No2AV
http://www.no2av.org/

The third view which I tend to agree with is:-
http://www.no2av-yes2pr.org/

Yes 2 AV TV broadcast:-
http://youtu.be/ShE847wJpDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm5IBhrq_PU
Labour Yes 2 AV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmtAzrVmQ_8

No 2 AV broadcast
http://youtu.be/-obZ9OG_XKA
from the Labour Party http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcIJSndwSr4

[5intheface]

They reckon AV would have seen Willie lose in South Antrim with Gregory a possible loser to UUs in East Derry.

On the other hand, Peter may have held on in East Belfast with S Belfast in the balance.

[Kilsally]

Really not sold on AV - much prefer the Proportional Representation / Single Transferable Vote system. Lib Dems (and presumably therefore the Alliance Party?), UKIP, some Labour are for AV. Tories, most Labour, BNP and former lib Dems like David Owen (want PR instead) are against AV

The No 2 AV Yes 2 PR site explains it well-
http://www.no2av-yes2pr.org/why-vote-no/

[Holly]

The "No" people think the English are too dopey to understand a complicated system which requires putting preferences but can handle a "simple" first-past-the-post one.

[Dr. FIVE]

Best yes2AV argument I've heard so far.

David Cameron is voting "no" so that's good enough for me.

[Kilsally]

The "No" people think the English are too dopey to understand a complicated system which requires putting preferences but can handle a "simple" first-past-the-post one.

Don`t think thats it at all - the problem is that it introduces preferences like the PR system in Northern Ireland but whereas PR returns multiple candidates roughly inline with the amount of the vote they got - AV only returns 1 candidate meaning that you will end up with everybodies 2nd choice elected - much preferable to change the whole system to PR which will help political diversity whereas AV will entrench the three big parties.

[Holly]

Don`t think thats it at all ....

Not at all?
Well I am only quoting what David Cameron said:
There's a brilliant simplicity to first-past-the-post.
You walk into a polling booth, put a cross against someone's name, drop the paper in a ballot box - and the person who gets the most votes wins.
That goes out the window with AV.
http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-polit...tics-australia

Simple? Yes.
But "brilliant"? Lordy, do the English fall for such ludicrous misrepresentation?
Wait a minute.... .... No. No; they really cannot be that dopey after all.

[morticia]

While I'd agree that STV is superior to AV, I think they might feel the need to move in baby steps, over there. There's a real resistance to change, much worse than here, I'd say.

I doubt they'll vote for it, sadly. Was in England on holiday recently and there were quite a few who either didn't understand the concept or couldn't be bothered to vote. Or both.

[Dr. FIVE]

Real talk

[Assam]

Voted at 8-ish this evening(England). A few other voters were there - though that was apparently a lot busier than the "totally dead" scenario earlier in the day.

Am furious with the whole way this referendum has been set up and run, or rather not run. It was a ridiculous pretend-handout to the LibDems in the grubby ConDem agreement last year. Rather not have run this referendum at all. The LibDems have condemned this very important issue to obscurity for years to come. NO serious discussion or proper information was made available to people in general. Given that British people are, generally, at least small-c conservative, of course most people are going to either switch off or vote no in fear of any change. Plus the politicians just used it to vent their frustrations with the Coalition - and that's only mentioning the LibDems. Am bloody furious. And I don't even think AV as proposed is the best system anyway. Argghh ...

[Fraxinus]

Voted at 8-ish this evening(England). A few other voters were there - though that was apparently a lot busier than the "totally dead" scenario earlier in the day.

Am furious with the whole way this referendum has been set up and run, or rather not run. It was a ridiculous pretend-handout to the LibDems in the grubby ConDem agreement last year. Rather not have run this referendum at all. The LibDems have condemned this very important issue to obscurity for years to come. NO serious discussion or proper information was made available to people in general. Given that British people are, generally, at least small-c conservative, of course most people are going to either switch off or vote no in fear of any change. Plus the politicians just used it to vent their frustrations with the Coalition - and that's only mentioning the LibDems. Am bloody furious. And I don't even think AV as proposed is the best system anyway. Argghh ...

Haven't followed it at all bar a tiny discussion on BBC late Sun night and they said pretty much that and that even some NO posters just have Cleggs face on it...using the threat of more LibDems being elected as a reason to vote no...what a terrible irony for the Liberals.

[mutley]

While I'd agree that STV is superior to AV, I think they might feel the need to move in baby steps, over there. There's a real resistance to change, much worse than here, I'd say.

I doubt they'll vote for it, sadly. Was in England on holiday recently and there were quite a few who either didn't understand the concept or couldn't be bothered to vote. Or both.

Watching an episode of the only way is Essex would confirm that

[Assam]

Yes, that's been pretty much the level at which it was fought.

Worse to see Paddy Ashdown on Q. Time tonight defending everything, when he and the late Robin Cook seemed so close to sorting all of this out back in 1997 / 8 .... hmm, okay, so he has a LITTLE bit of room for subsequent cynicism ... am still furious! Especially as it's linked to a nifty change in the constituency-makeup here, which will be substantially beneficial to the Conservative party. (smaller constituencies come the ne*t election, due to hit Labour most), not that I'm supporting Labour, just want a more fairer system.

[C. Flower]

A very decisive rejection of AV (PR) by the electorate who clearly want to stay with "first past the post" elections.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk/

I'm wondering if anti-coalition, anti Lib Dem feeling is part of this ?

[Fraxinus]

Brian O'Connell of RTÉ was part of that discussion on BBC I mentioned above and was asked or mentioned about referenda in Ireland which he said were fairly regular and come with plenty of information explaining to people the issues (debatable on the European referenda). But seemingly they said the AV one was just thrown together (the Lib Dems actually wanted STV but Tories wouldn't go that far) with it not being explained well, the debates continually diverted to other issues entirely and it'll now be at least another generation before they get the chance to change the way they vote again.