Pity the coppers? 'Gardaí have no money after bills are paid'

[Kid Ryder]

From the Irish Times website: Gardaí have 'no money' after bills are paid

When you consider that cops here have amongst the highest starting salaries of all 'public servants', I feel like getting a very small violin out.

Some 120 members of An Garda Síochana had no money left over in their pay packets in January, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (AGSI) has claimed.

Sergeant Brian O’Dea, a member of the AGSI national executive, said members were left with a “negative cheque” as a result of the universal social charge and other payments which followed December’s budgets.

The mortgages on the buy-to-lets are really killing these greedy hogs now. Surely Shell E&P Ireland could help out in some way, as a token of gratitude, like?

[Seán Ryan]

Well at least there must be solace in knowing that they're giving their all for queen and country!

[Sam Lord]

Cry me a river ....

[Sidewinder]

Yeah isn't this because they all have 3 BTL mortgages each with the Garda Credit Union, which deducts the mortgage payments directly from their wage packets?

*ponders*

Are there laws against bankrupts serving in the Gardaí? If not why not? And is this perhaps an opportunity to clean out a rotten force that is woefully unfit for purpose?

[Buddha]

And without the Gardaí? How would all you brave souls be? I'm talking of those of us who actually live in the Republic of Ireland.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I've heard this whinge last year from Gardai about 'negative' paypackets and have to say that they only way they can end up with negative paypackets is if there is a system of deduction automatically for Garda credit union repayments as Sidewinder says.

So how are they living then? Where is the money coming from for next week's shopping?

Gardai are all warned about the rules and dangers of debt I'm sure at Templemore and the principle that a heavily indebted copper is an opportunity for criminals. Are they doing unofficial jobs for cash of an evening? In which case they are tax-dodgers automatically.

The Gardai are none too bright to be bringing up this subject because by definition they are admitting that Gardai are effectively insolvent if not technically bankrupt. The Garda credit union itself was way out of regulatory control when it lent 800,000 to a Garda to buy a pub. That is commercial property lending and outside the rules and regulations which govern CU's.

Why hasn't the Garda Credit Union been opened up to see who the hell is a governance liability? I suppose senior Gardai can always have a list of officers in 'negative paypacket' hell and should those Gardai start turning up in new '11 cars then the nose should start twitching in terms of internal risk management.

But for the Gardai to come out and seek sympathy for officers who are blatantly insolvent through their own actions is a bit stupid really.

[Baron von Biffo]

Gardaí, like other PS workers, have had their contracts of employment shredded by their employer. No, that's not quite accurate. The employer obligations under those contracts have been set aside but the employee obligations remain the same.

Their contracts said that they would be paid an agreed amount and they made commitments based on that. Because PS workers have fewer legal protections than their private sector neighbours (and gardaí have fewer protections than the rest of the PS) their employer was able to unilaterally alter the terms of their contracts leaving them unable to meet their commitments.

Unlike other workers gardaí can't strike to protect themselves from employer abuse. They are also limited in how they can augment their income from other employment.

If we leave the shoulder chips on the bedside locker for a moment and look at this issue dispassionately we'll see that even if we have no other concerns about it, it's not a good idea for a society to reduce its police officers to penury.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

And without the Gardaí? How would all you brave souls be? I'm talking of those of us who actually live in the Republic of Ireland.

Depends. Add up the cost of the Gardai and then see what you'd get from private security for the same money. And you'd be paying for hours worked and not a raft of benefits.

Also private security can be sacked for lapses. Gardai are a bit like priests- they just get transferred.

Private security is also discoverable in terms of FOI acts whereas Gardai are the most opaquely run policing unit in western Europe- criticised heavily for the closed ranks silence in international comparisons.

What about the Sergeant who is running a one-armed bandit operation three doors down from a Garda station in Dublin?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Gardaí, like other PS workers, have had their contracts of employment shredded by their employer. No, that's not quite accurate. The employer obligations under those contracts have been set aside but the employee obligations remain the same.

Their contracts said that they would be paid an agreed amount and they made commitments based on that. Because PS workers have fewer legal protections than their private sector neighbours (and gardaí have fewer protections than the rest of the PS) their employer was able to unilaterally alter the terms of their contracts leaving them unable to meet their commitments.

Unlike other workers gardaí can't strike to protect themselves from employer abuse. They are also limited in how they can augment their income from other employment.

If we leave the shoulder chips on the bedside locker for a moment and look at this issue dispassionately we'll see that even if we have no other concerns about it, it's not a good idea for a society to reduce its police officers to penury.

Could I ask what benefits have been removed from Gardai?

[culmore]

Seems to me the Gardai are a bit like our politicians, want everything for nothing and cry poverty , while driving an 11. year car with houses in spain and turkey and holidays a few times a year. Just get back and do an honest days work

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Gardaí, like other PS workers, have had their contracts of employment shredded by their employer. No, that's not quite accurate. The employer obligations under those contracts have been set aside but the employee obligations remain the same.

This is the bit that interests me. It is a direct claim that Gardai have had employment benefits removed ('shredded') and while I'm pretty much convinced by now that the good Baron here has some interest in the Public Service and I'd love to get a declaration of interest on that (I'm a bit puzzled given the Croke Park Agreement being a heavy form of ringfencing around the PS sector) that hasn't hit the papers in terms of Garda/PS benefits.

I have to admit I'm getting a bit narked by these assertions chucked out by Biffo in the same way that Lenihan's weary statements were just statements and not backed up by any explanation.

Could I ask once again Baron- what employment benefits have been 'shredded' with reference to the Garda Siochana in particular? I'm happy to apologise if there has been any quiet 'shredding' but I think we'd have heard about it.

[Sidewinder]

Not to mention the "If we leave the shoulder chips on the bedside locker for a moment and look at this issue dispassionately we'll see that even if we have no other concerns about it, it's not a good idea for a society to reduce its police officers to penury. " line...


Eh these Gardaí reduced themselves to penury by filling their boots with BTLs.

I've seen absolutely zero evidence that these supposedly penniless Gardaí are penniless because all their pay has been "stolen". They might have taken a small paycut but the allowances have not been touched and their basic salary is far better than 90% of employees. None of this is anywhere near enough to magically make cops suddenly be earning zero or negative pay unless those cops are ridiculously indebted and over-extended.

And anyone in that position should be removed from the force immediately as a matter of course. The Gardaí are corrupt enough without having hundreds of insolvent bankrupt cops all hundreds of thousands in the red running about the place. Any cop should, routinely and regularly, have their finances examined for danger signs.

[Skrimshander]

just got this off the ol tweet machine. although not strictly on topic, it does shed a little light on standards and practices of those we were asked whether we pity or not in op


http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news...arda-assaults/

[Apjp]

And without the Gardaí? How would all you brave souls be? I'm talking of those of us who actually live in the Republic of Ireland.

We dont live in a republic. google Irelands official name.

[Apjp]

Not to mention the "If we leave the shoulder chips on the bedside locker for a moment and look at this issue dispassionately we'll see that even if we have no other concerns about it, it's not a good idea for a society to reduce its police officers to penury. " line...


Eh these Gardaí reduced themselves to penury by filling their boots with BTLs.

I've seen absolutely zero evidence that these supposedly penniless Gardaí are penniless because all their pay has been "stolen". They might have taken a small paycut but the allowances have not been touched and their basic salary is far better than 90% of employees. None of this is anywhere near enough to magically make cops suddenly be earning zero or negative pay unless those cops are ridiculously indebted and over-extended.

And anyone in that position should be removed from the force immediately as a matter of course. The Gardaí are corrupt enough without having hundreds of insolvent bankrupt cops all hundreds of thousands in the red running about the place. Any cop should, routinely and regularly, have their finances examined for danger signs.

They're not all corrupt. Some undoubtedly are and the innercity Gardai love beating the ***** out of students and protesters, but to lump rural gardai and beangardai in with the riot squad and a few on the take from criminal gangs in the city is just woefully inaccurate to say the least. You honestly suggesting theres embedded corruption in yer average part time country garda?