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Thread: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

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    Default éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    I am neither a member of éirígí nor an associate. I have started this thread having read the two quotes I copy below; I did not specifically identify the two members of PW because I was simply using their remarks in generic sense for discussion rather than they should be held to the remarks and the context in which they were made.

    One PW member, elsewhere on this forum, stated: "I supported the PIRA ceasefire in 94. I think SF had the opportuntiy to build their mandate into a major force and be quite a thorn in Britains side using passive ressitence and form a State within a State similar to the Bolivarian movement or similar to whats happening within Gaza."

    The other PW member responded as follows; " I absolutely agree with this. The fact that the provos decided to administer NI for the Brits and led the vast bulk of the Nationalists into a cul de sac opened the way up for the reemergence of an armed campaign. If a sustained and effective but non violent oppositional strategy had been adopted I think pretty much everyone would have tied in sooner or later. "

    Effectively what is being said is this --SF failed to adhere to the 'cause' therefore without SF there is not other alternative but the use of violence.

    The following could be an alternative to violence and it is what éirígí state on their website;

    Campaigns have the potential to empower, politicise and mobilise the people, who alone can provide the dynamic for such a transformation. Through campaigning on political, social, economic and cultural issues, éirígí aims to contribute to that dynamic.
    http://www.eirigi.org/about_us/index.htm

    éirígí offer what both members above have refered to -and no violence is required --other than I would imagine --acts of 'civil disobedience'.

    It would be unlikely for éirígí, or any other group, to make any meaningful headway because they are silenced, or burdened, by those who are only spoiling for a fight. I would imagine that there are many Republicans disallusioned by SF antics --but marginalised and isolated because of violent dissidents.

    Can groups like éirígí take a more assertive role in opposition to SF and the GFA without addressing the negative impact that violent dissidents are causing? The politics of condemnation has been a much abused and one sided weapon in our past --but can Republicans keep making excuses for those who simply just want to start a war?
    Last edited by Christy Walsh; 05-04-2011 at 06:37 PM.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    You know what really riled me Christy ? Remember some folks were hassled by the RUC/PSNI because they were forced to walk on the road at Castle St because the footpath was undergoing some sort of repair work ? And the 'new police' used some legal mumbo jumbo as an excuse to prevent them from continuing on their way ? That was the turning point for me.

    ( I'm not a member of any political group nor have I ever voted.)

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post
    You know what really riled me Christy ? Remember some folks were hassled by the RUC/PSNI because they were forced to walk on the road at Castle St because the footpath was undergoing some sort of repair work ? And the 'new police' used some legal mumbo jumbo as an excuse to prevent them from continuing on their way ? That was the turning point for me.

    ( I'm not a member of any political group nor have I ever voted.)
    I remember the work being done to the footpath but not the incident you refer? But possibly as you might be suggesting --people being stopped from going about their peaceful buisness would do more to highlight any problem with the political infrastructure of NI than going around killing people. Most people would see being inconvenienced as a much lesser evil than killing people.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    I'm near certain the citizens involved were on their way to demonstrate against the murderous british army glorifying war on the streets of Belfast.
    I see the same murderous organisation plan to do the same thing next month.
    Belfast City Council, or someone, said it was OK by them.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Eirigi will be the first to tell you that because they are anti GFA does'nt mean they are Pro Violent.

    You'll find that the PSNI are heavy handed when it comes to anyone oppossing the GFA. You only have to look at the harrassment of Eirigi memebers during casual protests, sponsored walks or indeed the case of Gerry Mc Geough arrested while on electioneering work to realise that political policing still exists and that incidents like this can fuel the arguement for armed resistance.

    It can also be argued that the Provos were in fact the original dissidents having split from a mainstream all those years ago. And having split, they went on to ''become the mainstream.''
    Happiness is an inside job.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    The 'new police' are doing themselves no favours when they use stunts like the one I referred to above.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    My point was twofold, 1) that eirigi are obscured by those using violence and 2) that there is an alternative to the use of violence --thus it is not a means of last resort.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    I am neither a member of éirígí nor an associate and this thread has been started having read the comments of two other members on this forum support the use of violence with very flawed argument.
    I am not a member of éirígí and I would be obliged if you would desist from quoting me as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh;135956
    The politics of condemnation has been a much abused and one sided weapon in our past --but can Republicans keep making excuses for those who simply just want to [B
    start[/B] a war?
    Let me translate that ... the politics of condemnation were not acceptable when the provos were killing ( in fact they spent their lives condemning the politics of condemnation) but now they have jumped to the other side of the barricade the politics of condemnation are very acceptable - in fact de rigeur.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    My point was twofold, 1) that eirigi are obscured by those using violence and 2) that there is an alternative to the use of violence --thus it is not a means of last resort.
    What is the alternative when groups like Eirigi or any individual voicing opposition to the status quo are politically policed, harrassed, stitched up, interned etc?

    My arguement is that it is when this occurs others are more likely to turn to the gun. They see no other alternative. It's leanrned behavior in a sense were history has taught them that violence works.
    Happiness is an inside job.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    I am neither a member of éirígí nor an associate and this thread has been started having read the comments of two other members on this forum support the use of violence with very flawed argument.
    I would also be obliged if you would desist from asserting that I am in favour of a military campaign at this point in time. At no time have I stated that on any thread.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trow View Post
    What is the alternative when groups like Eirigi or any individual voicing opposition to the status quo are politically policed, harrassed, stitched up, interned etc?

    My arguement is that it is when this occurs others are more likely to turn to the gun. They see no other alternative. It's leanrned behavior in a sense were history has taught them that violence works.
    You make good arguments as to why people turn to violence. Futile as this may sound, does the North have a police ombudsman? Then again ours down here isnt very good, so i s'pose that makes no differ. My own suspicion, admittedly just an opinion is that some people turn through violence through harassment like you said but that more turn to it for the thrill of it. Its as wrong to kill a catholic or anyone, especially today when there isnt even a reason for war up north like perhaps the provos understandably argued there was in the past, as it is for the 'murderous british army' to kill people in the middle east. One wonders though, what can be done to combat the harassment you state that the police are doing? Cant you video it where possible? thats what people out in corrib did this week when two gardai were allegedly saying they'd deport and rape some woman. Its a start to get proof-not that I dont believe you. But cold hard evidence could give you a case in the courts on specific matters perhaps, such as the foot path one? After all, as denzil did say in training day 'its not what ye know, tis what ye can prove!!!!'

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    I am not a member of éirígí and I would be obliged if you would desist from quoting me as such.
    I stated in the opening
    this thread has been started having read the comments of two other members on this forum


    Let me translate that ... the politics of condemnation were not acceptable when the provos were killing ( in fact they spent their lives condemning the politics of condemnation) but now they have jumped to the other side of the barricade the politics of condemnation are very acceptable - in fact de rigeur.
    let me translate that for you
    The politics of condemnation has been a much abused and one sided weapon in our past --but can Republicans keep making excuses for those who simply just want to [B
    start[/B] a war?
    Like I said the PIRA did not start the pogroms and murder gangs of previous years --they were a response to them --Dissidents are the only ones trawling for a war today.
    Last edited by Christy Walsh; 05-04-2011 at 02:03 PM.

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    I would also be obliged if you would desist from asserting that I am in favour of a military campaign at this point in time. At no time have I stated that on any thread.

    Maybe I misunderstand your defence for violent action?

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    I stated in the opening

    this thread has been started having read the comments of two other members on this forum
    Actually what you stated was (adding in the bit you left out):

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post

    I am neither a member of éirígí nor an associate and this thread has been started having read the comments of two other members on this forum support the use of violence with very flawed argument.

    Member in the context of this sentence clearly indicates a member of éirígí.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: éirígí --are Dissidents silencing opposition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    Actually what you stated was (adding in the bit you left out):




    Member in the context of this sentence clearly indicates a member of éirígí.
    Either way you want to read that remains the same --I at no point relate to you as anything other than a member on this forum --the post is about eirigi advocates non violence --you had been defending violence --another indicator --I am sure no one will think you a member of eirigi.

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