Default by Greece Inevitable - Update : Heave to Oust Greece From the Eurozone

[Ephilant]

A picture speaks a thousand words....

she might call the shots (or thinks she does), Mme Lagarde is not miss popular in Greece or with our current Minister for Finance Yannis Stournaras, who makes absolutely no bones about maiking it clear, whenever possible, even in public...

This incident happened at the recent meeting of Finance Ministers on Cyprus, after Greece was told it will be October before "they" decide to give Greece the 30 billion tranche or not. They are of course not playing games, they are "being thorough in deciding the right thing".

[Ephilant]

It's official, Samaras has said so, THERE IS NO SATURDAY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=RMf5SsWx5hM

Nobody knows if this is a unilateral decision by Samaras to simply implement what his masters in the Troika have told him, or whether this is in agreement with the Venizelos and Kouvelis.

Either way, Saturday does not exist any more. Greece is now officially in a 6 day, 78 hour a week working week. It would of course be much nicer if he could conjur up jobs to go with this slavery. He might actually stand a chance of getting some support for this.
Goodbye Labour laws, hopefully we'll meet again, soon.

[riposte]

It's official, Samaras has said so, THERE IS NO SATURDAY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=RMf5SsWx5hM

Nobody knows if this is a unilateral decision by Samaras to simply implement what his masters in the Troika have told him, or whether this is in agreement with the Venizelos and Kouvelis.

Either way, Saturday does not exist any more. Greece is now officially in a 6 day, 78 hour a week working week. It would of course be much nicer if he could conjur up jobs to go with this slavery. He might actually stand a chance of getting some support for this.
Goodbye Labour laws, hopefully we'll meet again, soon.

I never liked Saturday anyway.

[Ephilant]

I never liked Saturday anyway.

I suppose it's a good thing he didn't try to please everybody again and introduce a 78 hour working week Monday-Friday

[disability student]

The Greeks appears to have stronger neck to rebuff Neo-liberal's plans far more than the Irish government. Kenny & co too soft and weak to rebuff neo-liberal's agenda (more akin to America).

Everything seems to point the way towards usa economic system where everybody have to pay for everything discarding the socialist model that we have here. Neo-liberal's plans/agenda strongly favors the rich and degrades the middle class/poor down the ladder. That's what FG/Lab are enhancing Neo-liberal programme for the enrichment for the wealth/political classes.

[Ephilant]

In his first major speech since the elections, Alexis Tsipras has come out fighting and hits nails with big heads!
Unlike Samaras, Tsipras did hold his major speech at the TIF, and did not hold back.

The protracted recession, the unprecedented crisis that has hit our country is suffocating the real economy. We are obliged to change direction, we are obliged to overhaul the prospects for growth in the economy, we cannot endure the impact of this absurd fiscal policy imposed on our country.

Instead of asking:"what austerity measures does Greece have to take into order to receive the Troika loans”, the real question that needs asking is ”what does Greece need to do to reconstruct the country in the time after the Troika.”

He presented what he calls a comprehensive, coherent, progressive and realistic reconstruction program, with 8 objectives

- immediate action to halt the rapidly deteriorating humanitarian crisis enveloping Greece

- immediate implementation of measures to drastically reduce unemployment

- immediate provide the necessary social services and infrastructure, and increase public spending on education, health and social protection

- ensure self-reliance for the country in the areas of food, medicine and fuel

- concentrate on import substitution wherever, whenever possible

- the introduction of a comprehensive program to protect natural resources and our environment

- the development of sustainable, not-for-profit nationwide public transport systems instead of motorways and the establishment of a not-for-profit ferry company to service the islands

Like Germany in 1953, Greece wil insist on the renegotiation of the loan agreement, a moratorium on the payment of interest on foreign debt and a severe reduction of this debt.

He proposed detailed measures to increase the revenue take from 41% of GDP to 45% of GDP, including a comprehensive tax reform with the main burden of tax payment on those who can afford to pay it. He detailed the introduction of a proper property register, and the complete overhaul of the revenue rules and regulations, including non-negotionable training of staff. If necessary, this training would be outsourced to competent, foreign authorities.

He proposes the complete dismantling of the current banking system, with closure and losses to be taken by the banks. He also proposes the full seperation between private and business banking, with a new bank, a revised and revitalized ATE bank,to return to public-social control and concentrate on small savers.
A new bank would look after the farming community and SMEs, while a third pillar would look after the larger accounts, again under public control and scrutiny.

The creation of a pubicly owned National Wealth Fund and a National Social Security Fund which will control all proceeds for the development of our natural resources, including the nationalisation of any resources that may be sold under the privatisation plans.

In order to secure the targeted self sufficency in food, the agricultural sector of Greece will receive major assistance in replacing imported produce, including the unilateral levying of taxes on imported produce. Tsipras also envisages a PIIGS common agricultral policy, involving local and international cooperatives to combat the importation of subsidized foreign produce into those countries and develop a self-reliance for these countries in food production.

He envisages the complete overhaul of the Tourism sector, with the closure of the super-hotels and redistribution of the market share to Greek owned and Greek controlled establishments.

In order to ensure Greece's independence in terms of health care, he proposes the development of indigenous industry to replace imported medical care and products. This includes training and education specifically in the areas of R&D and health care.

this is a (very) short summary of what was put on the table today.
Did anybody mention this guy being labeled as the second most dangerous politician in Europe? I wonder why....

[C. Flower]

In order to secure the targeted self sufficency in food, the agricultural sector of Greece will receive major assistance in replacing imported produce, including the unilateral levying of taxes on imported produce.

Would have to leave the EU to do that, no ?

Tsipras also envisages a PIIGS common agricultural policy, involving local and international cooperatives to combat the importation of subsidized foreign produce into those countries and develop a self-reliance for these countries in food production.

I'm all for local food, but food protectionism would drive food prices up, and would be contrary to the EU treaties.

How would closing hotels help ?

The first part of is well worth talking about, but protection, although good for weaker economies, if it takes off generally drives economies further down.

[Ephilant]

Would have to leave the EU to do that, no ?


I'm all for local food, but food protectionism would drive food prices up, and would be contrary to the EU treaties.

How would closing hotels help ?

The first part of is well worth talking about, but protection, although good for weaker economies, if it takes off generally drives economies further down.

Tsipras is coming from the certainty that next elections are not very far away, and he rightfully assumes it will be a landslide victory for SYRIZA this time, despite foreign interference. It also strikes me that a lot of statements these days are jointly made with KKE. Have KKE changed their stance? Hard to believe, it's not easy to move once you don concrete boots.

He has however made it clear that once SYRIZA is in government, the EU will either change it's attitude drastically (and he once again mentions

not just Greece, but Europe

and specifically mentions Portugal and Spain, or Greece will indeed leave the EU with unilateral default and they can whistle after their money. However, if they are prepared to listen and change tack, then things will change for the better.
What I think he is banking on is
1) an early election in Greece, which is almost a given
2) the EU has committed so much to Greece, Portugal, and lately Spain right now that it will not want to risk seeing that investment go down the tubes. I think he believes that if Greece goes, that will give the people in Portugal and Spain the impetus to take similar action, leaving the EU in a very precarious position.

He does realize that at the moment Greece is held to ransom because it is not self sufficient in food or energy supply, and the whole program is obviously aimed at achieving that. It will indeed necessitate bending a few rules here and there. But then, we wouldn't be Greeks if that was a problem, would we?

From reading the speech and the measures again, SYRIZA is not aiming at protectionism. They are most definitely aiming at self sufficiency through investment in local production. They are not aiming at stopping imports through taxation, unless the imports are given an advantage through subsidies. And that is only fair.

The hotels is a different kettle. Many large hotel chains have opened up in the more popular tourist destinations, which we have many of. The net result of that is a decimation of local, small business. By closing these guys down he could achieve 3 things

- revive the local economy in terms of services
- achieve a much higher tax return on the tourism revenue
- drastically reduce unregistered and illegal labour. He does realize that the illegal immigrant situation needs taken out of the hands of GD, and that means tackling it. This is one way of doing it, removing the crooked employers.

On GD, he did also mention them, and threw down the gauntlet. They were told to get of the streets or be removed. And the way it was put does not leave too much to the imagination as to how they would be removed. Lets say "nice" is not on the cards...

[fluffybiscuits]

In his first major speech since the elections, Alexis Tsipras has come out fighting and hits nails with big heads!
Unlike Samaras, Tsipras did hold his major speech at the TIF, and did not hold back.





He presented what he calls a comprehensive, coherent, progressive and realistic reconstruction program, with 8 objectives

- immediate action to halt the rapidly deteriorating humanitarian crisis enveloping Greece

- immediate implementation of measures to drastically reduce unemployment

- immediate provide the necessary social services and infrastructure, and increase public spending on education, health and social protection

- ensure self-reliance for the country in the areas of food, medicine and fuel

- concentrate on import substitution wherever, whenever possible

- the introduction of a comprehensive program to protect natural resources and our environment

- the development of sustainable, not-for-profit nationwide public transport systems instead of motorways and the establishment of a not-for-profit ferry company to service the islands



He proposed detailed measures to increase the revenue take from 41% of GDP to 45% of GDP, including a comprehensive tax reform with the main burden of tax payment on those who can afford to pay it. He detailed the introduction of a proper property register, and the complete overhaul of the revenue rules and regulations, including non-negotionable training of staff. If necessary, this training would be outsourced to competent, foreign authorities.

He proposes the complete dismantling of the current banking system, with closure and losses to be taken by the banks. He also proposes the full seperation between private and business banking, with a new bank, a revised and revitalized ATE bank,to return to public-social control and concentrate on small savers.
A new bank would look after the farming community and SMEs, while a third pillar would look after the larger accounts, again under public control and scrutiny.

The creation of a pubicly owned National Wealth Fund and a National Social Security Fund which will control all proceeds for the development of our natural resources, including the nationalisation of any resources that may be sold under the privatisation plans.

In order to secure the targeted self sufficency in food, the agricultural sector of Greece will receive major assistance in replacing imported produce, including the unilateral levying of taxes on imported produce. Tsipras also envisages a PIIGS common agricultral policy, involving local and international cooperatives to combat the importation of subsidized foreign produce into those countries and develop a self-reliance for these countries in food production.

He envisages the complete overhaul of the Tourism sector, with the closure of the super-hotels and redistribution of the market share to Greek owned and Greek controlled establishments.

In order to ensure Greece's independence in terms of health care, he proposes the development of indigenous industry to replace imported medical care and products. This includes training and education specifically in the areas of R&D and health care.

this is a (very) short summary of what was put on the table today.
Did anybody mention this guy being labeled as the second most dangerous politician in Europe? I wonder why....

Love the idea of the research and development, it is one area with a lot of potential for growth and a lot of room for growth. The patents could prove to be a saving grace. The tourism sector in Greece should go on a big drive and look to encourage people in outside of the traditional summer months (maybe they do but i have not read anything much on it).

Tsprias is becoming a hero for me

[Ephilant]

Against the background of the news that Greek, Irish, Spanish and Portuguese banks are haemorrhaging money to the tune of 320 billion € in withdrawals in the last year, Tsipras gave his first in-depth interview to Athens News on all things current.

This is some of what the most dangerous politician in Europe had to say about Europe as it stands

On the "Drachma Lobby" accusations:

This is a desperate communication tactic. It is a continual attempt at deception, an extreme lie on which he [Samaras] tries to support his extreme policies. Everyone now understands that the fate of the common currency does not depend on the austerity programme in Greece. The government and the troika’s measures will face tremendous resistance within and outside parliament. Preventing the implementation of the measures is an issue concerning all of society and Syriza will fully contribute to this effort.
A return to the drachma would benefit the financially strong and it would further widen social disparities. It would also sharpen competition with the rest of the European south. The issue is not to return to a state of competition with Spanish, Italian and Portuguese workers over who will produce more cheaply and with lower salaries. The aim is to ally ourselves with them in order to avert a socially catastrophic plan. In any event, no one can force us to leave the euro. The drachma is not an option.

On the blackmail of Greece with the next 30 billion € tranche of bailout money:

The loan instalments that are disbursed return almost entirely to our lenders - and, moreover, with a margin profit that is not at all negligible. In return, Greece is required to follow a course that reverts it many decades back, economically and socially. This leads nowhere.

On the impact of EU policy on the social structures in the EU

On the path it’s on, Europe no longer has the tools to handle the crisis. The end result of the current policy will be the spreading of recession and social misery throughout the EU. Hence, we need a different Europe, one that is not held in bondage by banks, profit and the markets, but rather one orientated towards democracy, solidarity, equality and the dignity of labour. This is certainly an issue that should be addressed by regional alliances, but above all it is a matter for the peoples and societies of both the North and the South.

On public sector reform:

Public sector employees are not an elite with scandalous privileges, as television depicts them. The vast majority of workers receive salaries that are at the edge of decency and which have been substantially reduced. The repercussions of this policy of massive layoffs are enormous. Entire families will be pushed into poverty and desperation. The public sector is essentially being dissolved at a time that its overhaul is needed to make it more effective. This is being done at the behest of private interests, which aim to make huge profits by exploiting large sectors of the Greek economy. The left was not involved in the client system set up over the last decades. It was created exclusively by the parties that ruled and their political machines. The percentage of the labour force employed in the public sector is slightly below the EU average. Those who now want to get rid of people as if they were landfill material are the very same ones who objected to all attempts to productively reform and rationalise the public sector. Nowhere in Europe has the public sector been improved by driving it to dissolution and devaluation. You can’t do this by wholesale slaughter; it is done by planning and under a programme, which includes evaluation procedures. You don’t use these procedures as a pretext to fire people, but in order to meet the development needs of the country.

On the privatization programme:

There is no planning. There are only plans to pillage and grab. They privatised the shipyards and their employees are in desperation. They privatised Hellenic Telecommunications (OTE). They want to privatise water, natural gas, trains and other vital sectors, so as to profit at the expense of people’s needs. This will lead to no relief. If they want to relieve people, why don’t they break the cartels in fuel, medicine, passenger shipping and supermarkets? Why do they sell off profitable businesses like the state betting OPAP, which can contribute huge amounts to the budget?
It [long term leasing] is a pretext; it is obviously a privatisation, because in 100 years none of us will be here to check what happened. Long term leasing is a gross ruse to sell off assets, in violation of the constitution. Public land and islands, the sale of which is being increasingly discussed, fall under this category. We are ceding control over land and productive capabilities while abolishing labour relations, town planning, environmental protection and business taxation. Greece is being transformed into a colonial country and it is ceding to private individuals every growth prospect it has - for decades.

It's a dangerous man who speaks out against neo-liberal colonialism and preaches unity and solidarity on an EU level...

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

He's a courageous fellow, this Mr Tsipras, and I hope there is sufficient security around him. He'll have made some serious enemies with those statements.

I notice there was a small but significant change in the agreement with Greece and the last IMF bailout funding- previously Greece could have defaulted and sovereign debt holders would have had to sue in the Greek courts for their money but I think the legalities were changed to 'UK' law last time out so that it would make the process of getting an award in international courts against Greece much easier for vulture capitalists.

I'm not well up on the arcane part of international law on sovereign debt but as far as I understand it Greek lawmakers could have previously passed a law stating that previous debt was 'odious' and illegal under their own law and that would be a major barrier to the vulture capitalists in buying distressed Greek debt.

I like Tsipras's statements and I think his assessment is sound- I also like his comment on a trade system between the PIIGs. I think trade barriers and protectionism will return possibly via currency wars anyway between the superblocs in the world.

I wonder whether the PIIGS would be better off devising their own Plan B- even if it was never intended for use it would be viewed as a nuclear button on the EU by Germany and would constitute a bargaining chip immediately.

Agricultural produce alone in a barter system of trade credits (denominated in yuan?) between the PIIGs and outside the EU system in the same way as the utterly false market in carbon credits was constructed only with real product underneath might be interesting.

[Ephilant]

It's becoming harder to "read" the situation, because the government here is literally saturating the place with "leaks on cuts", most of them contradicting each other within hours of their "release".
What is becoming very clear is that PASOK is a spent force, heading for the retirement home (with fat pensions of course), and Democratic Left is going through a serious identity crisis. They starte doff as an anti-memorandum party, went to a may-be-memorandum party just after the elections and now seem to want to implement the whole thing to the letter by yesterday. With the result of serious internal problems for Kouvelis. If it went to a vote right now, at least 20 of the 33 Dem Left MPs would vote against the proposed measures.
PASOK insists that the full package must be rpesented to it's MPs so that they can discuss this (behind closed doors) and come up with more delaying tactics "strong PASOK contribution" to the parliamentary debate.
Don't forget, whatever Samaras says still has to be passed in Parliament, and that seems anything but certain.
The "final" meeting on the 11.3 billion worth of cuts has once again been postponed, which only indicates a serious disagreement amongst the government partners.
The only winner in all this can be SYRIZA. Which wll not be music to Merkel's ears. Especially not with that dangerous man making all those dangerous noises....

[C. Flower]

It's becoming harder to "read" the situation, because the government here is literally saturating the place with "leaks on cuts", most of them contradicting each other within hours of their "release".
What is becoming very clear is that PASOK is a spent force, heading for the retirement home (with fat pensions of course), and Democratic Left is going through a serious identity crisis. They starte doff as an anti-memorandum party, went to a may-be-memorandum party just after the elections and now seem to want to implement the whole thing to the letter by yesterday. With the result of serious internal problems for Kouvelis. If it went to a vote right now, at least 20 of the 33 Dem Left MPs would vote against the proposed measures.
PASOK insists that the full package must be rpesented to it's MPs so that they can discuss this (behind closed doors) and come up with more delaying tactics "strong PASOK contribution" to the parliamentary debate.
Don't forget, whatever Samaras says still has to be passed in Parliament, and that seems anything but certain.
The "final" meeting on the 11.3 billion worth of cuts has once again been postponed, which only indicates a serious disagreement amongst the government partners.
The only winner in all this can be SYRIZA. Which wll not be music to Merkel's ears. Especially not with that dangerous man making all those dangerous noises....

Have they learned from Fine Gael, or are they all working from the same IMF cog sheet ?

[Ephilant]

Have they learned from Fine Gael, or are they all working from the same IMF cog sheet ?

funny you should think that.... One of my daughters lives in Spain, and she tells me exactly the same is happening there. News becomes non-news within the hour, and people don't know whether they are coming or going. And they get hit for six from a totally different angle.
My friends in Portugal relate similar stories. Do you REALLY think the IMF would be THAT devious???

[MPB]

funny you should think that.... One of my daughters lives in Spain, and she tells me exactly the same is happening there. News becomes non-news within the hour, and people don't know whether they are coming or going. And they get hit for six from a totally different angle.
My friends in Portugal relate similar stories. Do you REALLY think the IMF would be THAT devious???

Jesus Ephilant, you seem to be jinxed, Greek, with a daughter who lives in Spain, posts on an Irish political site, Portuguese friends.

You can,t seem to buy a break.