Default by Greece Inevitable - Update : Heave to Oust Greece From the Eurozone

[ZeroWedge]

You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel here to try and create an argument. To go and label Neo Democratia and PASOK as left wing as about as credible as calling FF die hard communists. You would be a lot closer to the truth with the FF statement.

Youre dodging the core issue.

The state hired six new public sector workers and according to leftwing theory, that should be a stimulus to the economy. Yet you are criticising this hiring as somehow corrupt or wasteful.

[Sam Lord]

Youre dodging the core issue.

The state hired six new public sector workers and according to leftwing theory, that should be a stimulus to the economy. Yet you are criticising this hiring as somehow corrupt or wasteful.

I'm not a proponent of what you mistakenly describe as "left wing theory" (I'm taking it you mean keynesian economics) but I have to say that I have never hard anyone advocate that people should be just hired by the state to do nothing. If you could provide a link in this regard I would be obliged.

You are also entirely missing the coruption and patronage aspect of the matter. Who was hired and by whom.

[ZeroWedge]

I have never hard anyone advocate that people should be just hired by the state to do nothing. If you could provide a link in this regard I would be obliged.

Bord na Mona, is a classic example. All the "workers" there do, is tear up the environment, and consume taxpayers money. They produce next to no electricity. Also theres a list somewhere online of all the hundreds of quangos in Ireland, I can find it for you if you absolutely insist.

You are also entirely missing the coruption and patronage aspect of the matter. Who was hired and by whom.

Thats the way nearly all public sector jobs are filled. Have you not noticed that the highest paid RTE presenter is also the nephew of a former RTE chairman?

[C. Flower]

I'm not a proponent of what you mistakenly describe as "left wing theory" (I'm taking it you mean keynesian economics) but I have to say that I have never hard anyone advocate that people should be just hired by the state to do nothing. If you could provide a link in this regard I would be obliged.

You are also entirely missing the coruption and patronage aspect of the matter. Who was hired and by whom.

Mary Harney, a right winger, did a deal in setting up the HSE which condemned numbers of administrators to a life of pretend paper shuffling and makework.

Some were not able to tell researchers what their job entailed.

[Sam Lord]

Bord na Mona, is a classic example. All the "workers" there do, is tear up the environment, and consume taxpayers money. They produce next to no electricity. Also theres a list somewhere online of all the hundreds of quangos in Ireland, I can find it for you if you absolutely insist.

What I was actually looking for was a piece of "left wing theory" that advocated that people should be employed to do nothing. This shouldn't be too hard as you assert it is a common "left wing" position.

And by the way, the semi-state bodies and quangos in Ireland were all set up, to my knowledge by the capitalist political parties which have been running the place since independence.

Thats the way nearly all public sector jobs are filled. Have you not noticed that the highest paid RTE presenter is also the nephew of a former RTE chairman?

I'm not sure that it's how nearly all public sector jobs are filled in Ireland. But even if it is why does that not give someone in Greece the right to complain about patronage and corruption in Greece?

[Ephilant]

Well then, isn't life just the great, never a dull moment with our political friends.

The Hellenic Republic Asset Development Fund was rocked today by yet another potential for international scandal. When Papademos set the Fund up, on the orders of the Troika, to sell off Greece's national assets, the EU appointed two overseeers to the fund, as well as a few "advisors" (where would you be without them?).
One of these advisors was the former head of the Slovak state privatization agency, Ms Anna Bubeníková, who was sacked from her position in January 2012. She resigned from her advisory postion today.
Ms Bubeníková is embroiled in the "gorilla" scandal that hit Slovakia in the beginning of the year, exposing almost all ministers in the centre right government as well as top officials in state agencies of being invoklved in a multi billion Euro bribery scandal involving Austrian, French and Russian multinationals and the investment fund Penta. She allegedly acted as a go-between, for a fee of course. Penta is one of the dominant players in the small Slovak investment market, but still employs 25,000 people and took 1.2€ billion in revenue in 2010.

With a background like that, I'm sure Ms Bubeníková did indeed have the correct credentials for her post as "advisor" for the Hellenic Republic Asset Development Fund, and knew all the "right" people. Didn't Tspras say that the Hellenic Republic Asset Development Fund was set up and run by gangsters for gangsters....

For more niceties on the gorilla scandal, read here, and of course keep in mind that Slovakia has now also asked the EU for a bailout...

[MPB]

How the ECB is keeping Greece afloat utilising the ELA programme:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/...-greece-alive/

EU Banks are being kept afloat by the FED. They don,t have the money or the permission to print.

The FED is subsidising EU Banks. Why? Because the FED is the Banks.

Countries are not bust, people are not bust, B.anks are bust and the elites are willing to bust countries and people in order to save Banks.

Question. Who would be pauperised by the closure of Banks? Not me. Not anyone.

Any money lost by ordinary citizens or legitimate businesses can be replaced.

The threat of savings being lost and pensions being decimated is a nonsense.

I am willing to debate with anybody on the consequences of the closure of Banks

[C. Flower]

Greece is being told to cut an extra 2.5 billion (14 billion in total) as tax revenues have fallen and privatisation is not getting enough cash in to balance the books.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...ed5c206158.521

It's hard to see how they can do this.

The economy shrank by over 6% last year.

[Ephilant]

Greece is being told to cut an extra 2.5 billion (14 billion in total) as tax revenues have fallen and privatisation is not getting enough cash in to balance the books.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...ed5c206158.521

It's hard to see how they can do this.

The economy shrank by over 6% last year.

As stated in the "Poverty of the Greek People" thread, some 6 months ago a law was proposed to target especially doctors. lawyers and engineers after a study revealed that this group alone is responsible for underpayment of taxes to the tune of 11.2 € billion. (Which happens to be the origional amount of extra savings sought by the Troika)
The proposed law was voted down in the Greek Parliament. Those who voted the proposed law down are almost exclusively doctors, lawyers and engineers.
The same group voted through the extra horizontal cuts in minimum wage and lower pensions.
The same group recently decided that those ex-selfemployed earning pensions of over 2500 € a month are too small a group to bother going after. The group of people who have private pensions of 2500€ + a month consists almost exclusively of Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers.
What do you mean corruption and bias???
As one of them stated live on TV : "If it's legal, it's moral"
Now you know.

[Ephilant]

A good while ago, a friend told me that one way of scuppering an unwanted system is to make it so expensive to run that its promotors just have to give up. Looks like the people of Hydra are putting this into practice.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPu12WjnVWM&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPu12WjnVWM&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

Last Friday, the owner of a famous fish tavern on the island was arrested by tax inspectors for the non-issue of receipts, thus being accused of pocketing 23% Vat. the man's defence is (and many restaurant and taverna owners will confirm this) that he only issues receipts after he gets paid, because a lot of customers simply don't pay the 23% vat in the first place. The Tax inspectors weren't having any of it, and the man was carted of to the local police station, with the intention of taking him to the mainland and prosecuting him there.
The locals weren't having any of it, and layed siege on the police station. They cut water and electricity supply, and bombarded the place with anything they could lay their hands on. Inside, the tax inspectors barricaded themselves in as good as they could and called for help.
The Navy arrived, bringing riot police from Athens.

In good old Greek tradition, the police promptly got pelted with stones, yoghurt, eggs, and anything else that came to hand.

Eventually the police managed to get the guy on board of the navy vessel and off the island. He will be procesuted for tax evasion. Of course, those responsible for 11.2 € billion deficit in the budget, who should be procesuted for the same offense, walk around free and probably tell some unfortunate restaurant owner to stuff the 23% Vat...

[Ephilant]

More tax collection adventures in Greece.

As part of the drive to "save more money", the Greek government has re-introduced the Labour Reserve. Basically it's a half way house for civil servants who are found to be surplus to requirements. Instead of being layed off like anybody else, they are put into the "Labour Reserve" for up to 3 years, keep 60% of their wages, are allowed to work elsewhere without any deductions, and are officially on "stand-by" for when they are needed again. A pool of willing, able and capable workers who know the job and don't need training up (sic)...

The Greek revenue, who turned down the assistance of German tax inspectors as totally unneccesary and ridiculous, have now revealed that they have to go out, collect more taxes from less people, dodge yoghurt, eggs and frappes in the process, and have to do this with 9,826 tax inspectors instead of the promised 15,372. A good chunk of those 9,826 will now be put on the "Labour Reserve". They have also revealed that 83 newly appointed tax collectors refused to take up the job because of the low pay of 680€ a month, before tax...

[Ephilant]

And more ppolitical games and insults.

In politics, it is customary and protocol that visiting EU officials to any EU country also meet with the leader of main opposition party during their visit.
We are "honoured2 with a visit from non other than J.C. Juncker, coming to have lunch with Samaras and spout the usual nonsense about how good we are, but...

A meeting with Tsipras, leader of the largest opposition party, was categorically refused, despite their own protocols.
It would seem that in a democratic EU democracy only extends to those who dance to the Brussels/Berlin orchestrated tunes, but excludes those with diferent views. This refusal apparently happened on the advice of "Greek Officials".
It is not only a snub to Syriza, it is more importantly a total insult to democracy itself, and proof that the EU operates a system of "preferred democracy", in short, shut up and dance or we don't talk to you.

All we can say to J.C. is thanks for making this abudantly clear. For those of us who still had doubts about the EU, they have now most definitely been removed. Just in time for the next elections...

[DCon]

Professors at Greek Universities alleged to have taken big grants to fund fake research while they were stocking up on expensive cars and property

Top sources of OLAF in Brussels surveyed by "theme" declined to give the public the names of teachers, noting that this is a case which is ongoing. However, he spoke "squandering EU funds by Greek professors of universities, who in a 10 years seems to have acquired expensive properties and luxury cars."
In case involves even more teachers, details of which are known to the authorities. In the coming days are expected to accept well raided the offices and homes.

Greek source: http://www.protothema.gr/greece/article/?aid=89297

Translation: http://translate.google.com/translat...%3Faid%3D89297

[Richardbouvet]

This story from the BBC shows the horrendous programme which the Greek government and people have agreed to implement:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18511963

The demonstrations in Syntagma Square melted away almost as soon as the Greek electorate chose submission to Brussels in the recent general election.

The revolutionary moment in Greece is lost. The Greeks have caved in as we did, albeit with a greater show of protest.

It really is very sad. Can nobody ever defeat the neoliberals?

[Ephilant]

This story from the BBC shows the horrendous programme which the Greek government and people have agreed to implement:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18511963

The demonstrations in Syntagma Square melted away almost as soon as the Greek electorate chose submission to Brussels in the recent general election.

The revolutionary moment in Greece is lost. The Greeks have caved in as we did, albeit with a greater show of protest.

It really is very sad. Can nobody ever defeat the neoliberals?

No Greek in his/her right mind is going to protest during the summer holidays. 40C is just not the right temperature to do this. There is a time for revolution, and there is a time for frappe. This the time we sit in the Taverna and discuss things over a few frappes.
And we watch the likes of Junckers giving Tsipras the 2 fingers while on a visit in Athens. And we watch Samaras making a pathetic fool of himself during the same visit. He stopped short, but only just, of kissing Junckers arse in public in a pathetic show designed to show how "good" we have become.
These things are duely noted, and the next frappe is ordered.
By the end of this week we will again be baking in 40 - 43C, the the revolution will just have to wait a little longer. But in 2 weeks time the holiday season is over, the foreigners will be gone, and reality will hit home.
And all those little incidents clocked while relaxing in the taverna suddenly become very important issues. The EU is meanwhile playing the hide and seek game with the next tranche of the bailout, hoping against hope for the magic wand to start working and Europe suddenly becoming the promised paradise again.
It's not going to happen, and Greece will be looking at an election again, in the very near future. With many, many Greeks only too ready to tell them where to put the next tranche.
Unfortunately, this time the anger of the people will spill over and make the riots you refer to look like a very poorly executed kiddies rehearsal. That is the sad reality. Don't wish for violence, you invariably get a lot more than you ask for, and almost certainly with the opposite result of what was intended.