"Nothing dramatic or revolutionary".

[C. Flower]

You might be missing the point.

I don't think so. The proportion of Americans who spend time in jail is unbelievable. People serve very long terms for trivial offences. Effectively, a lot of jails are privatised labour camps.

I was chatting on an Admin board mainly used by Americans and there was a thread asking "Have you been to jail". Plenty had been, and these were smart, tech. happy people. It surprised me that a good number had been in jail in the army - again for trivial behaviour offences.

My point was that I wouldn't view "better than the US" as much of a recommendation in itself, given the above.

[RedSunRising]

I fail to see the parallel between an electoral alliance composed of different working class left-wing organisations and coalition government with right wing parties which is what the Popular Front entailed, which the ULA have said they will never do. Also, who said I was a member of the ULA? I can objectively analyse it without being a member or supporter. At this moment in time, there is a greater need for unity on the left than ever before, but I have severe doubts that the ULA will put forward a clear alternative programme and I think that it is doomed to repeating the mistakes of the NPA in France.

No it didnt. It was a mistake though, however Trotsky had been advocating basically the same thing expect he called it the "United Front".

The ULA is a social-democratic group, what do you think a social-democratic organization is?

[Sam Lord]

My point was that I wouldn't view "better than the US" as much of a recommendation in itself, given the above.

I think the point is that people assert that the Soviet Union was a police state that filled the jails with people whereas under capitalism there is freedom. The truth, in fact, is that in the greatest capitalist country on earrth there is a higher proportion of the population incarcerated today than in the Soviet Union at the height of what is described by bourgeois commentators as "the terror".

The point was to highlight this contradiction not to assert that something was good in the Soviet Union simply because it was better than the USA.

[Richardbouvet]

Or to give that old cold war aphorism:

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, its the other way round!

[bolshevik]

The ULA is in an open-ended process of being deepened over the coming months. If you were not happy with the state of the electoral pledge/alliance, get involved and argue your case. It is a collection of activists and ideas, not some external/abstract entity. Moments like this come along once every 20 years, don't waste it.

Here is my contribution to that process - http://revolutionaryprogramme.wordpr...ist-programme/

[bolshevik]

The ULA is not a revolutionary socialist organisation- it is an electoral alliance which hopes to form the nucleus of a new mass workers party which will give workers a voice in political battles. The SP are the only current in the ULA who are revolutionary socialists...

What makes you say the SP are revolutionary socialists when the programme they are presenting to the working class excludes any attempt to argue for the key question of building militant class struggle organisations in opposition to the capitalist state?

This is after-all the key distinction between the politics of reformist socialism and revolutionary socialism.