"Nothing dramatic or revolutionary".

[RedSunRising]

Trotskyites often attack "Stalinists" for being reformists, not revolutionary, etc despite the numerous "Stalinist" revolutions and armed struggles from Greece, Vietnam, Peru, Columbia and Nepal to same some since WWII. Yet Trotskyites in Ireland have stated that they stand for nothing dramatic or revolutionary....What gives?

"I feel the ULA has very common sense policies. When people think of socialists, they think of communism, which is not the case. There is nothing dramatic or revolutionary about our policies. A lot of countries have functioning social democracies, especially in Scandinavia. They have great health, transport and childcare systems. This is the direction we want to take, a direction this Government failed to follow."

http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2...irish-election

[C. Flower]

Trotskyites often attack "Stalinists" for being reformists, not revolutionary, etc despite the numerous "Stalinist" revolutions and armed struggles from Greece, Vietnam, Peru, Columbia and Nepal to same some since WWII. Yet Trotskyites in Ireland have stated that they stand for nothing dramatic or revolutionary....What gives?

"I feel the ULA has very common sense policies. When people think of socialists, they think of communism, which is not the case. There is nothing dramatic or revolutionary about our policies. A lot of countries have functioning social democracies, especially in Scandinavia. They have great health, transport and childcare systems. This is the direction we want to take, a direction this Government failed to follow."

http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2...irish-election

The ULA and SF both put forward candidates essentially on the basis that they would manage capitalism more successfully than the other parties.
As far as I remember, there was mention of nationalisation in their programme, but it was not a programme that required revolution for its implementation.

Do you think any Irish Stalinist party put forward a revolutionary alternative? What was it ?

[RedSunRising]

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/200...m-the-cpi-m-l/

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/200...leninist-1987/

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/200...reland-and-me/

Well there isnt a Communist Party in Ireland at the moment but this was the nearest thing we had to one....Miles from the ULA!

[Sam Lord]

Do you think any Irish Stalinist party put forward a revolutionary alternative?

What is a "stalinist" party? There is no such political ideology to my knowledge. Do you mean Marxist-Leninist?

[RedSunRising]

What is a "stalinist" party? There is no such political ideology to my knowledge. Do you mean Marxist-Leninist?

Excellent point...I meant those labeled "Stalinist" by Trots.

Trots accuse Marxist-Leninists and Maoists of being reformists...And than they come out with this? Hypocracy much?

[C. Flower]

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/200...m-the-cpi-m-l/

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/200...leninist-1987/

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/200...reland-and-me/

Well there isnt a Communist Party in Ireland at the moment but this was the nearest thing we had to one....Miles from the ULA!

Any views on Eírígí ?

[C. Flower]

Excellent point...I meant those labeled "Stalinist" by Trots.

Trots accuse Marxist-Leninists and Maoists of being reformists...And than they come out with this? Hypocracy much?

What is a "Trot" ?

[Sam Lord]

What is a "Trot" ?

It is an abbreviation of Trotskyite....

[RedSunRising]

Any views on Eírígí ?

Eírígí have a lot of good people in them and supporting them....But the whole thing about "Democratic Socialism" is pretty vague, they havent got much of a programme, however I would rate them much higher than the ULA.

But the topic is that Trotskyites accuse Revolutionary Communists/Marxist-Leninists/Marxist-Leninist-Maoists of being reformist and than they come out with an election programme that doesnt mention socialism or communism. Clearly the ULA is more reformist than the British Labour Party was prior to the ending of clause 4.

[Kildare North]

ULA are not a party, they are an alliance for everyone left of Labour in an attempt to mobilise a mass left movement. The ULA is NOT a revolutionary socialist organisation. Revolutionary socialist tendencies (SP/SWP etc.) exist within it and independent of it in their own right.

[C. Flower]

It is an abbreviation of Trotskyite....

I believe the correct spelling is Trotskyist.

Perhaps some time you would point me to anything Marxist and/or Leninist in Stalin's oeuvre. I'm open to be convinced.

[C. Flower]

Eírígí have a lot of good people in them and supporting them....But the whole thing about "Democratic Socialism" is pretty vague, they havent got much of a programme, however I would rate them much higher than the ULA.

But the topic is that Trotskyites accuse Revolutionary Communists/Marxist-Leninists/Marxist-Leninist-Maoists of being reformist and than they come out with an election programme that doesnt mention socialism or communism. Clearly the ULA is more reformist than the British Labour Party was prior to the ending of clause 4.

I'm struggling with this, because if as you say the Trotskyist ULA are reformists, of the British Labour Party type, they are not Trotskyists, plain and simple.

There are plenty of so-called Communists of the Stalin variety who have followed the same route.

[RedSunRising]

I'm struggling with this, because if as you say the Trotskyist ULA are reformists, of the British Labour Party type, they are not Trotskyists, plain and simple.

There are plenty of so-called Communists of the Stalin variety who have followed the same route.

They call themselves Trotskyites/Trotskyists. They are represent the largest Trotskyite/Trotskyist organizations in the world.

No party that actually up holds Joseph Stalin has ever been as reformist as the ULA, plain and simple.

Therefore Trots are hypocrites.

[RedSunRising]

I'm struggling with this, because if as you say the Trotskyist ULA are reformists, of the British Labour Party type, they are not Trotskyists, plain and simple.

No the trots in Ireland are worse than the British Labour Party in the 80s and before because at least it held to some form of Socialism in its party programme.

[C. Flower]

They call themselves Trotskyites/Trotskyists. They are represent the largest Trotskyite/Trotskyist organizations in the world.

No party that actually up holds Joseph Stalin has ever been as reformist as the ULA, plain and simple.

Therefore Trots are hypocrites.

The "actually" is a problem. Who decides ?

I'm interested in looking at the ULA and its programme, but it could be an amalgam of the Beano and Mein Kampf, and that would not tell me anything about how revolutionary, or not, any other movement is.