Health Service Cuts - Please Post them Here

[DCon]

Yes, been to them both. And?

Parts of both are no better than Dublin Central.

[DCon]

Turns out Reilly's great announcement of getting cash from the Health Insurers has hit a predictable road block. Premium increases will be needed.

What happened FG's great UHI scheme?

VHI PREMIUMS could rise by up to 45 per cent next year unless the company is allowed to phase in proposed new charges, the State-owned insurer has warned the Government.

Plans by Minister for Health James Reilly to impose charges next year on private patients using public beds could have serious implications for the viability of the company, internal documents seen by The Irish Times indicate.

Earlier this month, the Minister agreed to defer the introduction of the charges until next year in return for an agreement by health insurers to make an advance payment on costs due next year.

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1029/1224325868416.html

All of which questions the pricing of Health Insurance companies down the years. If they were not charging sufficient amounts to pay the State what they would owe, what were they charging for? And did they assume they would never have to pay the State?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I wonder if the actuarial pricing involved in checking the data on the VHI side has ever been checked by an actuary working for the Dept of Health?

I doubt it, mind. But then insurance risk and premium pricing should be meat and drink to the Dept of Health bods if they are backing a mix of health service and private health care in the health system.

I have a horrible feeling that the only actuaries involved are on the private company side and they will be supplying their analysis to the Dept of Health.

[DCon]

VHI appears to be a good place to work

THE State-owned VHI is to spend €23m on free health cover for staff past and present, including bosses who retired with massive pensions.

A VHI spokesman said the €23.7m represented an actuarial calculation ‘of the total future costs for providing this cover for the remainder of the retirees’ lives’.

Among those who qualify for the lavish benefit are ex-chief executive Vincent Sheridan, who had a salary of €455,000 for the last year of his tenure at the semi-state firm he led from 2001 to 2008.

http://www.newsscoops.org/?p=948

[Baron von Biffo]

Turns out Reilly's great announcement of getting cash from the Health Insurers has hit a predictable road block. Premium increases will be needed.

What happened FG's great UHI scheme?

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1029/1224325868416.html

All of which questions the pricing of Health Insurance companies down the years. If they were not charging sufficient amounts to pay the State what they would owe, what were they charging for? And did they assume they would never have to pay the State?

The idea of charging private patients the full cost rather than the cost minus any SW entitlements was always going to damage the exchequer.

Private patients at present subsidise the HSE. If the cost of PHI must be increased to fund the new costs then it will obviously mean fewer people can afford it so the HSE will get no subsidy from them if they use the service.

In the medium to long term, and combined with the attacks on pay in the public health system, it makes provision of full service private hospitals more attractive. That's a development that would leave the current two tier system looking like a model of egalitarianism.

[Baron von Biffo]

VHI appears to be a good place to work

http://www.newsscoops.org/?p=948

Any chance of getting the details of pay and pensions for people at similar levels in VHIs competitors?

My guess would be not a hope. The purpose of 'scoops' like that is to chip away at the VHI with the long-term goal of fatally undermining it.

No VHI means no legacy issues around older, sicker members so all the private providers can sell to young healthy people without levies for risk equalisation.

Great for private profits but not so good for either older people or the exchequer.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

The ideal situation for a Health Insurance Company and its shareholders is high premiums and no payouts.

Actuaries for insurance companies chase this target in both risk and tariff setting constantly.

[DCon]

The ideal situation for a Health Insurance Company and its shareholders is high premiums and no payouts.
.

If the VHI have not been paying the State, this is what they have

[Baron von Biffo]

If the VHI have not been paying the State, this is what they have

Is there some evidence to show that the VHI has been withholding payments but private sector insurers haven't?

[DCon]

Is there some evidence to show that the VHI has been withholding payments but private sector insurers haven't?

there is evidence that nobody has been paying the State judging by Reilly's recent 'deal'

[Baron von Biffo]

there is evidence that nobody has been paying the State judging by Reilly's recent 'deal'

Why single out the VHI then?

[DCon]

Why single out the VHI then?

They are the largest and the ONLY semi-State.

they should be the first to pay the State what they owe. Instantly. The State could expect minor delays in getting funds from the private companies.

[Baron von Biffo]

They are the largest and the ONLY semi-State.

they should be the first to pay the State what they owe. Instantly. The State could expect minor delays in getting funds from the private companies.

That's a very Irish way of looking at it - Applying different standards to the same situation on the basis of the actor rather than the act.

How can state enterprises compete on an equal footing with private sector rivals if they have to comply with different rules?

That said, I think the delay in getting in money from insurers is down to the HSE not processing the paperwork rather than any policy to withhold payments.

[DCon]

That's a very Irish way of looking at it - Applying different standards to the same situation on the basis of the actor rather than the act.

How can state enterprises compete on an equal footing with private sector rivals if they have to comply with different rules?

That said, I think the delay in getting in money from insurers is down to the HSE not processing the paperwork rather than any policy to withhold payments.

No. I would just expect one arm of the State to pay another arm of the State (especially as both can bank with the same State owned bank) quicker than a private company paying the State.

[Baron von Biffo]

No. I would just expect one arm of the State to pay another arm of the State (especially as both can bank with the same State owned bank) quicker than a private company paying the State.

Imposing more onerous terms on one provider places that provider at a commercial disadvantage. That's not acceptable if we subscribe to the principle of a level playing field.