United Left Alliance and Angela Merkel are right Corporation tax in ireland needs to be increased

[redsunderthebed]

United Left Alliance and Angela Merkel are right Corporation tax in ireland needs to be greatly increased in line with other countries. United left have got my vote in todays general election on the basis of them being the only political group with the guts to call for Irelands pitifully low corporation tax rate to be increased. This would help to end the crony capitalism that exists and the cozy relationship between business in Ireland and some political parties. Angela Merkel has pointed out that Irelands low corporation tax helped cause our recent economic collapse, so this country has paid a steep price for low corporation tax.

[Kev Bar]

United Left Alliance and Angela Merkel are right Corporation tax in ireland needs to be greatly increased in line with other countries. United left have got my vote in todays general election on the basis of them being the only political group with the guts to call for Irelands pitifully low corporation tax rate to be increased. This would help to end the crony capitalism that exists and the cozy relationship between business in Ireland and some political parties. Angela Merkel has pointed out that Irelands low corporation tax helped cause our recent economic collapse, so this country has paid a steep price for low corporation tax.

Good to see somone tackling the leftie taboo - Ireland's Whorporation Tax: taking it up the *ss for The Man and betraying our European comrades.

[redsunderthebed]

Yes Kev Bar, I didnt expect too many brave souls to touch this topic! It is indeed as you say one of those leftie taboos! kinda sorts out the men from the boys does the good auld Irish corporation tax fiddle

[C. Flower]

Yes Kev Bar, I didnt expect too many brave souls to touch this topic! It is indeed as you say one of those leftie taboos! kinda sorts out the men from the boys does the good auld Irish corporation tax fiddle

Don't the ULA want to put it up ?

[Kev Bar]

Don't the ULA want to put it up ?

That's what we are talking about...that's what the point of the thread is...having the balls to go to the taboo - you can come too!

[Apjp]

I want streamlined corporation tax-reasonably higher but we cannot 'jack it up'. Basically I'd have 14.75% as the top rate and then 13.75% as the next lower rate and 13% for the lowest earning businesses-who would be mostly Irish SME's. It cannot be 'jacked up' or 'increased in line with other european countries'. i am afraid that proposal is economically ignorant. Take Iceland-a very similar economy. Their rate is 18%. We should keep it about 15% to make sure businesses come here and not there. This is what I believe economists sometimes call the 'tax ceiling' where if ye tax past a certain point(like say 15%) jobs will be lost and companies will relocate. Perhaps long term we can have 18-20% but certainly in the short term 15% is the most realistic. This tax got us over 700 million euro more than expected last year so yes it should be raised, but we should not 'increase it in line' like other eu states because our economy is completely different to most of theirs.

I got some good feedback handing out letters for me meeting on march the ninth earlier at the polling station(eventually after a few hours a garda asked me to move along). What I am hearing is that any left leaning people want a party that ACTUALLY REALISES SOCIALISM IS AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM AND unlike the Ula and the wp are happily doing, ye cannot go into an election without economic policies-where would these people get the 18.7 bn euros from?? I am very clear how I would get much of it from and I know the NPRF is empty so i dont spoof people. Even anti said it a while back as has cass and many others-the economic policies, or lack there of of the left are frightening. Clare Daly has posters up saying'elect a fighter who'll fight for jobs' . Someone should tell these spoofers that jobs are created, not fought for. I look forward to a day when a left party in Ireland runs for elections with that basic 101 of economics in mind.

[Munnkeyman]

I want streamlined corporation tax-reasonably higher but we cannot 'jack it up'. Basically I'd have 14.75% as the top rate and then 13.75% as the next lower rate and 13% for the lowest earning businesses-who would be mostly Irish SME's. It cannot be 'jacked up' or 'increased in line with other european countries'. i am afraid that proposal is economically ignorant. Take Iceland-a very similar economy. Their rate is 18%. We should keep it about 15% to make sure businesses come here and not there. This is what I believe economists sometimes call the 'tax ceiling' where if ye tax past a certain point(like say 15%) jobs will be lost and companies will relocate. Perhaps long term we can have 18-20% but certainly in the short term 15% is the most realistic. This tax got us over 700 million euro more than expected last year so yes it should be raised, but we should not 'increase it in line' like other eu states because our economy is completely different to most of theirs.

I got some good feedback handing out letters for me meeting on march the ninth earlier at the polling station(eventually after a few hours a garda asked me to move along). What I am hearing is that any left leaning people want a party that ACTUALLY REALISES SOCIALISM IS AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM AND unlike the Ula and the wp are happily doing, ye cannot go into an election without economic policies-where would these people get the 18.7 bn euros from?? I am very clear how I would get much of it from and I know the NPRF is empty so i dont spoof people. Even anti said it a while back as has cass and many others-the economic policies, or lack there of of the left are frightening. Clare Daly has posters up saying'elect a fighter who'll fight for jobs' . Someone should tell these spoofers that jobs are created, not fought for. I look forward to a day when a left party in Ireland runs for elections with that basic 101 of economics in mind.

Absolutely spot on.
People should also bear in mind that Ireland with its
nominal rate of Corporation tax set at 12.5% has an effective rate of taxation of 11.9% i.e. a very low divergence due to the simplicity of the system.
For example France on the other hand has a nominal rate set at 34.34% with an effective rate of 8% due to numerous loopholes and tax breaks.
Some 25% of French companies paid no corporate tax at all in 2009.
Sarkozy is one of the most vocal critics of the Irish Corporation tax rates, he could do with looking at the situation in his own country.

I'd recommend reading this document from the World Bank/PWC
It's a breakdown of taxation rates worldwide.
http://www.pwc.com/gx/en/paying-taxe...taxes-2011.pdf
or this summation in the Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...289521508.html

Corporation Tax Revenue from Top 250 Companies
Country  Corporation Tax Revenue(€ million)  Corporation Tax Revenue(%)  Number of Companies 
 
Total CT Revenue for 2006      6,223            -                       -
 
CT Revenue from Top 250 Companies
                               3,766                     100%                    250
 
of which country of ownership is:
 
Ireland                         762                       20%                     63
US                             1,811                      48%                     84
UK                              502                       13%                     32
EU                          537                       14%                     54
Rest of the World               154                        4%                     17
http://www.ssisi.ie/US_Companies.pdf

US companies also provide a huge revenue stream to the Irish exchequer paying 43% of the Corporation tax take in 2009.
US companies are also seemingly recession a lot more recession proof when compared to indigenous companies - Corporate tax revenue decreased 40% between 2007 and 2009 but revenue from US companies only fell by 4% in the same period.
Increasing the rate of tax will probably generate very little extra revenue and will most probably cost jobs and future investment.

Table 5: Corporation Tax Revenue from US Companies 2001 to 2009
Year    Corporation Tax Revenue from US Companies(€ million)   Share of Total Corporation Tax Revenue
2000                         1,189                                              28%
2001                         1,550                                              36%
2002                         1,720                                              40%
2003                         1,597                                              37%
2004                         1,562                                              35%
2005                         1,828                                              35%
2006                         1,907                                              31%
2007                         1,742                                              28%
2008                         2,090                                              40%
2009                         1,677                                              43%
http://www.ssisi.ie/US_Companies.pdf
 
The Economic and Fiscal Contribution of US Investment in Ireland

So in summation the ULA and Angela Merkel are talking rubbish.

[jimmymalone]

The ULA and Angela Merkel can feck off. This is a matter for the Dáil to decide. Irish tax affairs should be decided in Dublin, not Berlin. If anything, I think Irish Corporation Tax should be decreased to 5%. Of course it's not fair that companies located in Ireland only pay 12.5% corporation tax, however it has to be said that Irish Corporation Tax is a major attraction for companies who wish to locate to Ireland. That is not to say that a lot of the loopholes that exist with Irish Corporation Tax should not be closed

[Kev Bar]

There is the issue of the perception of can we steal from you and borrow from you too.

Twas the Paddy/Republican/Tea Party little tax and no rules pole dance that brought the sleaze bags of world capitalism here.

[morticia]

The ULA and Angela Merkel can feck off. This is a matter for the Dáil to decide. Irish tax affairs should be decided in Dublin, not Berlin. If anything, I think Irish Corporation Tax should be decreased to 5%. Of course it's not fair that companies located in Ireland only pay 12.5% corporation tax, however it has to be said that Irish Corporation Tax is a major attraction for companies who wish to locate to Ireland. That is not to say that a lot of the loopholes that exist with Irish Corporation Tax should not be closed

Bang on. Lads, the reality is, do you want jobs or ideology??

I am of the opinion that we the workers would be better off with jobs than correct ideology.

Just who is going to pay for the Dole etc if any more of us lose our jobs??

Get real, people.

[jpc]

What isn't generally realised amid all the orchestrated noise about our supposedly low corporation tax rates is that in Germany and France the actual rates paid are far lower than the stated levels.
When all the waivers are in, many European companies pay less than 12%.
Let someone ask our European colleagues about that?

[jimmymalone]

what isn't generally realised amid all the orchestrated noise about our supposedly low corporation tax rates is that in germany and france the actual rates paid are far lower than the stated levels.
When all the waivers are in, many european companies pay less than 12%.
Let someone ask our european colleagues about that?

+1000

[Apjp]

Absolutely spot on.
People should also bear in mind that Ireland with its
nominal rate of Corporation tax set at 12.5% has an effective rate of taxation of 11.9% i.e. a very low divergence due to the simplicity of the system.
For example France on the other hand has a nominal rate set at 34.34% with an effective rate of 8% due to numerous loopholes and tax breaks.
Some 25% of French companies paid no corporate tax at all in 2009.
Sarkozy is one of the most vocal critics of the Irish Corporation tax rates, he could do with looking at the situation in his own country.

I'd recommend reading this document from the World Bank/PWC
It's a breakdown of taxation rates worldwide.
http://www.pwc.com/gx/en/paying-taxe...taxes-2011.pdf
or this summation in the Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...289521508.html

Corporation Tax Revenue from Top 250 Companies
Country  Corporation Tax Revenue(€ million)  Corporation Tax Revenue(%)  Number of Companies 
 
Total CT Revenue for 2006      6,223            -                       -
 
CT Revenue from Top 250 Companies
                               3,766                     100%                    250
 
of which country of ownership is:
 
Ireland                         762                       20%                     63
US                             1,811                      48%                     84
UK                              502                       13%                     32
EU                          537                       14%                     54
Rest of the World               154                        4%                     17
http://www.ssisi.ie/US_Companies.pdf

US companies also provide a huge revenue stream to the Irish exchequer paying 43% of the Corporation tax take in 2009.
US companies are also seemingly recession a lot more recession proof when compared to indigenous companies - Corporate tax revenue decreased 40% between 2007 and 2009 but revenue from US companies only fell by 4% in the same period.
Increasing the rate of tax will probably generate very little extra revenue and will most probably cost jobs and future investment.

Table 5: Corporation Tax Revenue from US Companies 2001 to 2009
Year    Corporation Tax Revenue from US Companies(€ million)   Share of Total Corporation Tax Revenue
2000                         1,189                                              28%
2001                         1,550                                              36%
2002                         1,720                                              40%
2003                         1,597                                              37%
2004                         1,562                                              35%
2005                         1,828                                              35%
2006                         1,907                                              31%
2007                         1,742                                              28%
2008                         2,090                                              40%
2009                         1,677                                              43%
http://www.ssisi.ie/US_Companies.pdf
 
The Economic and Fiscal Contribution of US Investment in Ireland

So in summation the ULA and Angela Merkel are talking rubbish.

yes but the ulas 'initial' proposal of 15% should be the only change-for big companies. and google who only pay 2% through double irish and their ilk should have loopholes closed too. merkel wants more jobs in germany and less fdi in ireland. the ula are economically ignorant. like i said before they think ye can 'fight for jobs'. their own members know that is spoof in their heart of hearts. even youngdan made a good point-what the hell do they mean by fight for jobs? we have to boost public enterprise and maintain fdis whilst lessening our reliance on them. in other words we create jobs through state investment and state policy in both major sectors-not through 'electing a fighter' like clare daly whatever the **** that means.

[Apjp]

Bang on. Lads, the reality is, do you want jobs or ideology??

I am of the opinion that we the workers would be better off with jobs than correct ideology.

Just who is going to pay for the Dole etc if any more of us lose our jobs??

Get real, people.

you can have marxism, fdi and state companies. the target for any long term left govt in a few years time must be to make the latter along with state staeholded irish companies the dominant ones eventually in our economy. we dont need to choose ideology over jobs, but we do need to use our brains and realize that any rise in corpo tax should be minimal so as not to encourage capiatl flights and relocations. again i ask ye look at vietnam-thats what took them 25 years to do but now they are reaping the rewards. college is free and the college numbers have doubled since 2005. unemployment there is a capitalist fairytale.

[morticia]

look, we're a little windswept island without much in the way of proven, current natural resources, and too small a domestic market to make us worth noticing. If we discover a Ghawar sized oil field off Westport or Dalkey, that may change, but until then, we'll need to offer incentives for job creation.

Google may not pay much in corpo tax, but it pays its employees well and didn't cut during the slump. The workers pay income tax. What's not to like?