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Thread: Is Wikileaks Dead?

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Kev Bar, I don’t disagree with the points you make. My point in posting was to highlight what at the time seemed to me, “a lost opportunity”. A good idea brought low by human frailty. Since then, both Guardian and NYT have clarified. Kellar, in one or both interviews I referenced does, “not rule out” working with Assange in the future, however unlikely that may be.

    Here’s the latest from WaPo.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020405201.html

    And here’s the most dramatic quote from the WaPo piece that identifies why the journos were wary of Assange. Probably best if Assange goes away, and the work gets carried on by less polarizing figures.

    "In the meantime, the spotlight continues to shine on Assange. In the new book "WikiLeaks: Inside Julian Assange's War on Secrecy," for instance, Guardian journalists David Leigh and Luke Harding recount a July 2010 exchange with Assange at a Moroccan restaurant in London. When pressed by journalists to redact the names of informants mentioned in Afghan war documents then about to be released by WikiLeaks, Assange initially refused.
    "Well, they're informants," Assange said, according to the journalists' account. "So, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it."
    Although Assange later agreed to redactions, the incident gave the journalists pause.
    "Silence fell around the table," Leigh said in an interview. "We were astonished that Julian could be so callous but also so naive. Not redacting those names didn't begin to grapple with the complexities of life in Afghanistan. He didn't seem to get that."

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by disability student View Post
    I noticed that Wikileaks has gone very very quiet since the aftermath of Assange's court case. What's the story??
    Assabge is busy writing the memoirs he sold for $1.5m and setting up his new PPL system (that's Pay per Leak).
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Assabge is busy writing the memoirs he sold for $1.5m and setting up his new PPL system (that's Pay per Leak).
    Who bought?

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Who bought?
    Random House for the US, Canongate for the UK

    http://thenextweb.com/media/2010/12/...h-his-memoirs/

    Says Knopf there for the US, WSJ says Random House.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    WikiLeaks is rumoured to be getting ready to release a cache of potentially embarrassing information on the Bank of America.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE View Post
    WikiLeaks is rumoured to be getting ready to release a cache of potentially embarrassing information on the Bank of America.
    Warning about that Belfast Telegraph page - it caused my browser to crash twice, so open with caution...
    "It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth; there is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts."
    — Buenaventura Durruti

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Ryder View Post
    Warning about that Belfast Telegraph page - it caused my browser to crash twice, so open with caution...

    Always does this to me on firefox, works ok for me on IE.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    You want to install the No Script Firefox addon and block scripts from being executed by the Belfast Telegraph website. I suspect their bloody news ticker being the culprit, it's cranking up CPU usage massively.

    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 18-02-2011 at 02:37 PM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  9. #24

    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by FIVE View Post
    If Wikileak ever does 'die' it will be replaced by something better.
    Way things usually go
    Julian Assange has a massive following throught the World and as we have recently seen, not just here in Ireland, the media is gradually "spilling the beans" on corrupt governments and dictators. Wikileak will survive, maybe not in name but in spirit. Various web sites are now carrying on with the good work. In Ireland we have story.ie which may not be as large as wikileak but just as effective.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    The rumor of Wikileaks dumping on a US financial institution has been around since just after the cables leaked. Bank of America has been the rumored target, but still no proof.

    On the broader Wikileaks issue, the debate(s) here in the US, seem to have been different than those outside the US. In Europe and elsewhere, it seems the debate has mostly focused on either the efforts of the US Government to go after Assange, or the benefits Wikileaks brings in embarrassing the US, which is all fine and good, but mostly irrelevant. US Gov. will likely fail and embarrassment will pass.

    The big revelation of Wikileaks is that for the most part what US diplomats were saying in private, is the same as what the US Government was saying in public, unlike the boss in Yemen. So, no double standard.

    Here in the US the debate around Wikileaks focuses more on whether it is good or bad to have such leaks. A surprising number of transparency advocates have come out against Wikileaks, mostly on the grounds of the unintended consequence that there will likely be a backlash to restrict access to information. Below is a post to mailing list I belong to, that teases out some of the issues. It has embedded links. Probably the best link is to the debate on “Democracy Now” at point 6, between The Federation of American Scientists Steven Aftergood, and journalist Glenn Greenwald.

    http://ethics.journalism.wisc.edu/20...-to-wikileaks/

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    The rumor of Wikileaks dumping on a US financial institution has been around since just after the cables leaked. Bank of America has been the rumored target, but still no proof.

    On the broader Wikileaks issue, the debate(s) here in the US, seem to have been different than those outside the US. In Europe and elsewhere, it seems the debate has mostly focused on either the efforts of the US Government to go after Assange, or the benefits Wikileaks brings in embarrassing the US, which is all fine and good, but mostly irrelevant. US Gov. will likely fail and embarrassment will pass.

    The big revelation of Wikileaks is that for the most part what US diplomats were saying in private, is the same as what the US Government was saying in public, unlike the boss in Yemen. So, no double standard.

    Here in the US the debate around Wikileaks focuses more on whether it is good or bad to have such leaks. A surprising number of transparency advocates have come out against Wikileaks, mostly on the grounds of the unintended consequence that there will likely be a backlash to restrict access to information. Below is a post to mailing list I belong to, that teases out some of the issues. It has embedded links. Probably the best link is to the debate on “Democracy Now” at point 6, between The Federation of American Scientists Steven Aftergood, and journalist Glenn Greenwald.

    http://ethics.journalism.wisc.edu/20...-to-wikileaks/
    Yes, the main benefit of Wikileaks has perhaps simply been that it has drawn renewed attention to the character of US foreign policy across the world and put a little meat on the bones of our knowledge of it.

    The argument that we shouldn't use press freedom, in case someone should be provoked into trying to take it away, seems to me to be a confused one.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Yes, the main benefit of Wikileaks has perhaps simply been that it has drawn renewed attention to the character of US foreign policy across the world and put a little meat on the bones of our knowledge of it.

    The argument that we shouldn't use press freedom, in case someone should be provoked into trying to take it away, seems to me to be a confused one.
    I think the concern on behalf of transparency advocates is that Wikileaks is too indiscriminate, and that better management of disclosure would be preferable, in order to avoid the opposite of the type of backlash against overreaching that we’ve seen in the Wisconsin labor dispute. Do not provoke the government “unnecessarily”. Smarter ways to achieve objective. Alternative is new more restrictive FOI laws, already being promoted. Recognize that this could be construed as media establishment self-serving. Old media vs. new media etc. But it is notable that the most prominent journalistic lobby group in the US, RCFP, Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, has pointedly declined to endorse Wikileaks.

    On a separate note, I speak as someone who has successfully sued Government on an FOI issue, but will go to my grave believing that in my case, Government Lawyers, i.e. “Officers of the Court” lied to the Court. So, I have some sympathy for the views of the Wikileaks detractors. Be careful what you wish for. Governments can be very tricky to deal with. They usually start from the arrogant position that they have rigged the system in their favor, and if you have to try to overcome that it gets complicated, and you find you have to make many compromises along the way in order to achieve primary objective. They’ll give a bit, if you give a bit.

  13. #28
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    I think Cactus is right here.
    The idea that we should use a softly softly approach because the big malign beast (which we house and feed) might snap at us is daft.
    Keep the beast on a chain.
    As I have said before on this issue, when governments lie by comisson or omission to lead countries into war, they are either unworthy of our trust or too stupid to merit it.
    And we need to know that.

    Whilst not quite advocating 24 hr CCTV in the nanny's bedroom - governments need to be reminded that they are public servants.


    @Count.
    Yeah the they deserve it quote is shocking...but one wonders how serious it was.

    @Total - PPL- Tee Hee. Memoirs - why not? Why should just scum-bags make money from memoirs. And I can't imagine him spending it on cars and property.
    Ladies? That's open for debate.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 01-03-2011 at 08:46 AM.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    The lad's off to Sweden... barring an appeal, I suppose.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    KB:

    Rephrased, I think the concern of transparency advocates is that while Wikileaks may have provided a short term victory, (a battle in a war), Governments will be with us in the future, and Wikileaks may not. Therefore, it is important for transparency advocates to have a long term strategy for dealing with Governments that permits building incremental gains. The concern is that if Governments feel they have been “raped” by Wikileaks they will react by introducing more restrictive legislation that would be counterproductive to the overall objective. Witness the calls here in the US for the assassination of Assange. If Assange were ever extradited to the US there is still a possibility, albeit remote, that he could face a capital charge

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