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Thread: Is Wikileaks Dead?

  1. #1
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    Default Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Have Guardan/NYT hung Assange out to Dry?

    Long piece in this w/e NYT mag by editor Bill Kellar on the Assange/Wikileaks project. It broadly reinforces an earlier piece in Vanity Fair, documenting the disintegration of the relationship between Assange and the Gaurdian. Bottom line, looks like both Gaurdian and NYT have washed their hands (or are seriously contemplating), of Assange.

    If you have time, read the VF piece first, it is older, and focuses on the Assange/Gaurdian relationship. Then read NYT.
    Kellar describes Assange as a “Source” as opposed to a “Collaborator”. This will make it a little easier for US auths to prosecute Assange. Seems to me, that Assange, a brilliant fellow, is brought low, by his own mercurial personality flaws.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...uardian-201102

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/ma...e&ref=homepage

    The new competitor site to wikileaks, Openleaks.org is up and running. Not much info there yet. But looks easier to navigate.

    http://www.openleaks.org/

    http://wikileaks.info/

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    'Twould be a pity if that happened. But I'd suspect Wikileaks may survive the demise of its founder. Especially if he's made a martyr. The 1916 rebellion here was instructive; we were all taught in school that the rebels of 1916 had little support until the British decided to hang them all. Then they had massive support.

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    'Twould be a pity if that happened. But I'd suspect Wikileaks may survive the demise of its founder. Especially if he's made a martyr. The 1916 rebellion here was instructive; we were all taught in school that the rebels of 1916 had little support until the British decided to hang them all. Then they had massive support.
    The US is very aware of Assanges popularity and profile. Theyre not going to punish him harshly. But they do want to set a precedent and make an example of him.

    Id imagine he'll get a 1 year sentence with most of it suspended to time already served.

    But what they really, really, really want to do with him, is turn him. Theyve already tried that but it hasnt worked.

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    If Wikileak ever does 'die' it will be replaced by something better.
    Way things usually go

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Agree with the sentiments expressed above .. Wikileaks to me is a forerunner of something potentially much more interesting.

    By that I mean Wikileaks is now notorious for having sidestepped very powerful vested interests and brought the hard news to ordinary people, having been handed that news by ordinary people in extraordinary places during extraordinary events.

    Wikileaks isn't an end point but a beginning and whats going to be interesting will be the blatant attempts under cover of regulation of the internet to try to stifle expressions of the new Citizen Journalism.

    The political propaganda era 1950 to 2000 is struggling to maintain its authority and control and that to my mind is the real story behind the Wikileaks affair.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    'Twould be a pity if that happened. But I'd suspect Wikileaks may survive the demise of its founder. Especially if he's made a martyr. The 1916 rebellion here was instructive; we were all taught in school that the rebels of 1916 had little support until the British decided to hang them all. Then they had massive support.
    Obviously bad teachers - most of the leaders of the 1916 Rising were shot with only Roger Casement being hanged.

    The problem for Wikileaks is that it has become too closely identified with Assange and this has led to a clash of egos.

    Regards...jmcc

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Below are links to two recent interviews with Bill Kellar, Executive Editor of NYT, on the Julian Assange/Wiki Leaks controversy. Both aired on Public Broadcastin in the US.. There is a lot of duplication between both. So, if interested, listen to one, or watch the other, but probably not both.

    Seems to me, here in the US, that many in Ireland are familiar, with the “shouters” on Fox (O’Rielly, Beck etc,), and MNSBC, (Matthews, Maddow,), ( Olbermann is gone), but less familiar with the “quality” broadcasting on NPR and PBS.

    First up, radio interview with Terry Gross. She is likely the best interviewer on US radio. Low key, understated, no shouting, but gets to the heart of the matter. Multiple award winner. Her program “Fresh Air” covers a broad spectrum.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/02/01/133277...-and-wikileaks

    Second, TV interview Charlie Rose. Again, probably the best TV interviewer, low key, no shouting, informative. Program also covers a broad spectrum

    http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11447

    I don’t always listen, or watch, but I never fail to check their schedules. Appointment Radio and TV.

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Wikileaks Panorama interview with John Sweeney of scientology fame on Monday 7th Feb.
    On the eve of the extradition hearing to decide whether WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange must return to Sweden to face rape allegations, Panorama talks to his former right hand man who walked out last year. Assessing what WikiLeaks and its exposing of senstive offcial material has achieved, the film examines claims that the organisation famous for leaking government secrets was paranoid about leaks from within and that it has failed to live up to its own ideals on openness.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00yl1ng

    Sounds like he'll have an axe to grind but could be worth a watch anyway.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Have Guardan/NYT hung Assange out to Dry?

    Long piece in this w/e NYT mag by editor Bill Kellar on the Assange/Wikileaks project. It broadly reinforces an earlier piece in Vanity Fair, documenting the disintegration of the relationship between Assange and the Gaurdian. Bottom line, looks like both Gaurdian and NYT have washed their hands (or are seriously contemplating), of Assange.

    If you have time, read the VF piece first, it is older, and focuses on the AAssange/Gaurdian relationship. Then read NYT.
    Kellar describes Assange as a “Source” as opposed to a “Collaborator”. This will make it a little easier for US auths to prosecute Assange. Seems to me, that Assange, a brilliant fellow, is brought low, by his own mercurial personality flaws.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...uardian-201102

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/ma...e&ref=homepage

    The new competitor site to wikileaks, Openleaks.org is up and running. Not much info there yet. But looks easier to navigate.

    http://www.openleaks.org/

    http://wikileaks.info/

    "looks like both Gaurdian and NYT have washed their hands (or are seriously contemplating), of Assange."



    That's kind of academic as the deal on which the relationship was based is done.
    The Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger cautiously endorsed both Assange and the whole project...in a sidebar piece to the first installment of Leigh and Harding's book on Wikileaks - in his paper last week.
    Rusbridger, while noting the irony of Assange's infuriation about the leaking of his leaks, had a much broader view than the more tabloid/confrontation focussed portrayal in Vanity Fair.
    What Rusbidger, alone so far, highlighted was the unique nature of the Wikileaks deal.
    Apart from the cloak and dagger, anarchists and The Man aspect of the gig, there was the entirely novel position of Assange as a hybrid of source, journalist, publisher and author.

    "We certainly had our moments of difficulty and tension during the course of our joint enterprise. They were caused as much by the difficulty of regular, open communication as by Assange's status as a sometimes confusing mix of source, intermediary and publisher. Encrypted instant messaging is no substitute for talking. And, while Assange was certainly our main source for the documents, he was in no sense a conventional source – he was not the original source and certainly not a confidential one. Latterly, he was not even the only source. He was, if anything, a new breed of publisher-intermediary – a sometimes uncomfortable role in which he sought to have a degree of control over the source's material (and even a form of "ownership", complete with legal threats to sue for loss of income). When, to Assange's fury, WikiLeaks itself sprang a leak, the irony of the situation was almost comic. The ethical issues involved in this new status of editor/source became more complicated still when it was suggested to us that we owed some form of protection to Assange – as a "source" – by not inquiring too deeply into the sex charges leveled against him in Sweden. That did not seem a compelling argument to us, though there were those – it is not too strong to call them "disciples" – who were not willing to imagine any narrative beyond that of the smear."

    The hybrid aspect was bound to cause conflict and drama before you throw in the 'on the run' -time zones- 'selling out' and personal dramas into the equation.
    Ultimately - a hugely important event.

    "WikiLeaks and similar organisations are, it seems to me, generally admirable in their single minded view of transparency and openness. What has been remarkable is how the sky has not fallen in despite the truly enormous amounts of information released over the months. The enemies of WikiLeaks have made repeated assertions of the harm done by the release. It would be a good idea if someone would fund some rigorous research by a serious academic institution about the balance between harms and benefits. To judge from the response we had from countries without the benefit of a free press, there was a considerable thirst for the information in the cables – a hunger for knowledge which contrasted with the occasional knowing yawns from metropolitan sophisticates who insisted that the cables told us nothing new. Instead of a kneejerk stampede to more secrecy, this could be the opportunity to draw up a score sheet of the upsides and drawbacks of forced transparency."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...lan-rusbridger


    Assange - who is to be thanked - is possibly irrelevant now that it seems that he has inspired others to host similar vehicles to facilitate whistleblowing etc.
    Mr Assange, has at least succeeded - and no mean feat - in scaring those in authority.
    Witness, as I posted in The Empire Strikes back thread, the fact that US is proposing draconian legislation to plug leaks - legislation that seems to fly in the face of 'free speech.'

    Anyhow, even if Julian Assange eats toasted new born babies for breakfast, the man did something very rare -he created something that did good.

    Alan Rusbridger points to the VF conclusion:
    "the collaboration has produced by any standard one of the greatest journalistic scoops of the last 30 years."

    On the US media reaction to Assange -
    "It was surprising to see the widespread reluctance among American journalists to support the general ideal and work of WikiLeaks. For some it simply boiled down to a reluctance to admit that Assange was a journalist."



    @Capt
    Sadly one of the reasons Assange went to the "mainstream" was cos he found out that the unfiltered leaks were not getting the reaction or the exposure he thought they would get.
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 04-02-2011 at 01:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    Wikileaks isn't an end point but a beginning and whats going to be interesting will be the blatant attempts under cover of regulation of the internet to try to stifle expressions of the new Citizen Journalism.
    99.9 % of so-called citizen journalism is reactive. Journalists go into the field - and some get killed there - and keyboard warriors pick apart their stuff from the safety of their mummys basement.

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    99.9 % of so-called citizen journalism is reactive. Journalists go into the field - and some get killed there - and keyboard warriors pick apart their stuff from the safety of their mummys basement.
    Mr. Talking B0ll0cks is at it again. As a sometime citizen (photo)journalist I can tell you it's no fun being on the other side of the riot cops or soldiers from the so-called 'professional' journalists. It's dead easy to embed with the Empire. It's another story entirely seen from the other end of the muzzle. But I'd guess you're not that interested in that.
    "It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth; there is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts."
    — Buenaventura Durruti

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    99.9 % of so-called citizen journalism is reactive. Journalists go into the field - and some get killed there - and keyboard warriors pick apart their stuff from the safety of their mummys basement.
    As oppossed to Paul Williams and the like! Instead of addressing the underlying reasons behind why gang producing ghettos exist in Ireland he sensationalises gang warfare almost delighted that we have our very own mafia to sell stories about.

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcc View Post
    Obviously bad teachers - most of the leaders of the 1916 Rising were shot with only Roger Casement being hanged.

    The problem for Wikileaks is that it has become too closely identified with Assange and this has led to a clash of egos.

    Regards...jmcc
    You're correct of course; I'd forgotten, don't blame my ex teachers, I'm just getting old!

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    Latest Julian Assange in a recorded broadcast to an Australian public meeting on 4th Feb

    "Our Time Has Come":-

    WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange says the era of the internet generation has arrived and he'll continue to expose "abusive organisations".

    Snip

    He compared WikiLeaks' push for more transparent governance to the civil rights movement of the 1950s, the peace movement of the 1960s, feminism movements and the environmental movement.
    Advertisement: Story continues below

    "For the internet generation this is our challenge and this is our time," Mr Assange said.

    "We support a cause that is no more radical a proposition than that the citizenry has a right to scrutinise the state.

    "The state has asserted its authority by surveilling, monitoring and regimenting all of us, all the while hiding behind cloaks of security and opaqueness,"
    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...204-1agoy.html

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    Default Re: Is Wikileaks Dead?

    I noticed that Wikileaks has gone very very quiet since the aftermath of Assange's court case. What's the story??

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