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Thread: Wind Energy is Useless

  1. #1
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    Default Wind Energy is Useless

    After some recent study, it has been shown to me that the promise of wind energy is misguided. Not only is it not going to provide any energy but it will cost about 20 billion euro and kill off the tourism industry even more so than at present.

    I recently interviewed Val Martin on this subject. In preparation I read up on the subject and the situation in Britain, Denmark Germany and the US.

    This is the interview here. It is about an hour and 15 minutes long

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/youngda...rgy-val-martin


    I will set out the basics,

    At all times the supply of electricty must be at least 120% of demand. The extra 20% is insurance against breakdown leading to blackouts. This extra 20% is left running and the energy wasted.

    This 20% figure is very important as it means that the amount of wind generated flowing into the system at the best of times can not be allowed to exceed about this amount because if this unpredictable supply were to suddenly stop, then the fossel plant would find itself below 100% and the system would be down.

    Therefore there is a paradox of sorts. As more wind supply is built it means in effect that more fossel fuel generation must also be built to ensure stability of supply.

    The more energy the windfarms produce on the 25% of days they can produce any, means the more fossel fuel that will be burned as well.

    To put some figures to illustrate this insanity. Ireland has at the momebt about 7300 megawatts of capacity total. However the greatest demand ever so far has been less than 5000 megawatts.

    To try to bring green energy to the unatainable 40% the wind component, now at 1167 megawatts is to be increased to 4121 megawatts. This will mean that the fossel generation will have to be increased from 6171 to 9190.

    But keep in mind that the highest demand is less than 5000.


    This extra energy can not be stored. It is alternating current. The plan is to export it. However Britain will not need it as it is in the same boat, except with stronger winds.

    Denmark leads Europe in wind generation. It also leads it in the cost of electricity. It's free energy costs double what it costs in Ireland.

    The show goes into it in depth but the bottom line is that for spending 20 billion,Ireland will end up far worse off, with hugely expensive bills, with much more importation of fossils fuels and far higher carbon emmissions than otherwise.

    The whole thing is a boondoggle and scam just as large as NAMA.

    Expect your electic bills to skyrocket as this "free" windpower is pushed.



    This is the dissappointing reality as I myself held a different view until now. It is easy to be fooled by this scam

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Quote Originally Posted by youngdan View Post
    After some recent study, it has been shown to me that the promise of wind energy is misguided. Not only is it not going to provide any energy but it will cost about 20 billion euro and kill off the tourism industry even more so than at present.

    I recently interviewed Val Martin on this subject. In preparation I read up on the subject and the situation in Britain, Denmark Germany and the US.

    This is the interview here. It is about an hour and 15 minutes long

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/youngda...rgy-val-martin


    I will set out the basics,

    At all times the supply of electricty must be at least 120% of demand. The extra 20% is insurance against breakdown leading to blackouts. This extra 20% is left running and the energy wasted.

    This 20% figure is very important as it means that the amount of wind generated flowing into the system at the best of times can not be allowed to exceed about this amount because if this unpredictable supply were to suddenly stop, then the fossel plant would find itself below 100% and the system would be down.

    Therefore there is a paradox of sorts. As more wind supply is built it means in effect that more fossel fuel generation must also be built to ensure stability of supply.

    The more energy the windfarms produce on the 25% of days they can produce any, means the more fossel fuel that will be burned as well.

    To put some figures to illustrate this insanity. Ireland has at the momebt about 7300 megawatts of capacity total. However the greatest demand ever so far has been less than 5000 megawatts.

    To try to bring green energy to the unatainable 40% the wind component, now at 1167 megawatts is to be increased to 4121 megawatts. This will mean that the fossel generation will have to be increased from 6171 to 9190.

    But keep in mind that the highest demand is less than 5000.


    This extra energy can not be stored. It is alternating current. The plan is to export it. However Britain will not need it as it is in the same boat, except with stronger winds.

    Denmark leads Europe in wind generation. It also leads it in the cost of electricity. It's free energy costs double what it costs in Ireland.

    The show goes into it in depth but the bottom line is that for spending 20 billion,Ireland will end up far worse off, with hugely expensive bills, with much more importation of fossils fuels and far higher carbon emmissions than otherwise.

    The whole thing is a boondoggle and scam just as large as NAMA.

    Expect your electic bills to skyrocket as this "free" windpower is pushed.



    This is the dissappointing reality as I myself held a different view until now. It is easy to be fooled by this scam

    I'll listen today. I agree that there's no "free energy" - there are costs of all forms of renewable energy, solar, tidal and wind. There's been a good bit of discussion of these problems with wind energy. I think it's early enough days and that there may be some solutions to the irregular supply of wind energy. There was a project in Denmark that uses the oversupply to charge batteries for running electric cars. I don't know how that's going.

    At this stage, a vast amounts of energy is wasted and there are easy gains to be made from more sensible use. At the same time, we need more reseach and experimentation on renewables.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 22-01-2011 at 09:12 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Well you have read my posts down through the years on different fora since 2007. you will remember me many times saying how Ireland could be the Saudi Arabia of wind etc etc etc etc.

    Unfortunately I seem to have been badly in error

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Unfortunately Youngdan, you have a point. Wind energy is currently not backed up by the sort of energy storage solutions advocated by Spirit of Ireland. Once it is, the story changes.

    However, we have no choice but to innovate; the oil won't last for ever. No solution will match fossil fuel for power and ease of use, either, this is what will make this transition exceptionally painful.

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Quote Originally Posted by youngdan View Post
    Well you have read my posts down through the years on different fora since 2007. you will remember me many times saying how Ireland could be the Saudi Arabia of wind etc etc etc etc.

    Unfortunately I seem to have been badly in error
    While I remember your posts on the ready supply of cheap oil and gas for the US, I'm afraid that I missed your pro-wind posts.

    Energy conservation is making strides in Ireland - the number of people having their electricity cut off has grown exponentially.

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Interesting point. While I'd suggest that wind power on a limited scale could help reduce dependency on fossil fuels, it's clear that attempts to rely on it as a primary energy source would be madness. One form of energy which should be considered and which I think should be invested in is nuclear fusion. It's obviously only at a prototype stage now, but if sufficient capital were invested in it and a breakthrough made, it would provide the vast majority of energy needs.
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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    Unfortunately Youngdan, you have a point. Wind energy is currently not backed up by the sort of energy storage solutions advocated by Spirit of Ireland. Once it is, the story changes.

    However, we have no choice but to innovate; the oil won't last for ever. No solution will match fossil fuel for power and ease of use, either, this is what will make this transition exceptionally painful.
    But the problem is you need 4 to 5 times the capacity in the form of fossil fuel to ensure supply. You are increasing the fossil fuel needed.

    There is no way the energy can be stored.

    20 billion is going to be spent to make the problem worse

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Quote Originally Posted by antiestablishmentarian View Post
    Interesting point. While I'd suggest that wind power on a limited scale could help reduce dependency on fossil fuels, it's clear that attempts to rely on it as a primary energy source would be madness. One form of energy which should be considered and which I think should be invested in is nuclear fusion. It's obviously only at a prototype stage now, but if sufficient capital were invested in it and a breakthrough made, it would provide the vast majority of energy needs.
    The only use for intermittant power is a need that is in of itself not dependent of when it is done. For example if corn was to be milled then it could be milled on the one day in 5 that the wind would be sufficient. This would not be part of the grid though.wind power is what is known as "dirty". It's frequency is not constant etc. The grid must be kept very close to 50 hertz at all time

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Perhaps we need to rethink how we manage the grid.

    Or build some nuclear power, now.

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Quote Originally Posted by youngdan View Post
    Wind Energy is Useless
    Well, I beg to differ, YD

    I put up a nice little wind generator about 4 years ago (which I picked up for cheap on an auction in the UK), cutting my ESB bill by over 70%. It has long since earned its money and saved me a little fortune.

    Of course, I'm not in the 'think big' business like you but I'm taking great pleasure in scr3wing the ESB.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    I think if the emphasis had have been on housholds installing small wind turbines rather than major corporations getting windfalls for huge farms. Imagine if a wind turbine had been part of the planning for all the houses built outside towns in the last 10 years ,it would have changed the whole nature of the energy market with the divendends of power generation going directly into the economy rather than into the swiss bank accounts of wind inc.

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    A tiny Spanish island is trying to use 100% wind power, combined with Pump Storage, Interesting experiment

    Details here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/bu...html?src=twrhp
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    The problem with wind energy along with solar energy is storage is that it is not a consistent supply of power, so the problem arises with the issue of storage.

    And as we appear to have basic problems in regard to the storage of water how in god's name are we going to be so innovative as to tackle the issue of storage of green energy.

    This is a problem that should have been invested in and tackled when the country was awash with money.

    You know back in the dim and distant past when it seemed like we could afford to pay people a liveable wage and a pension.

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    I still wonder why the storage issue just gets handwaved away. Surely tis not beyond the wit of Man to come up with some vastly improved form of energy storage? Why are we still basically using 19th Century battery technology?

    There's also the points already raised about decentralised microgeneration on an individual or community level, and why this seems to be mysteriously absent from windy Greeny plans.

    All this leads me inescapably to the conclusion that wind power as it is being pushed at the moment is nothing but another vested-interest Big Corporate scam.

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    Default Re: Wind Energy is Useless

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    I still wonder why the storage issue just gets handwaved away. Surely tis not beyond the wit of Man to come up with some vastly improved form of energy storage? Why are we still basically using 19th Century battery technology?

    There's also the points already raised about decentralised microgeneration on an individual or community level, and why this seems to be mysteriously absent from windy Greeny plans.

    All this leads me inescapably to the conclusion that wind power as it is being pushed at the moment is nothing but another vested-interest Big Corporate scam.
    They are testing ceramic heater storage in PEI and Maine

    The solution involves not centralized storage in one large plant, but “distributed” storage involving small ceramic heaters in peoples’ basements. It’s also being installed in a few small commercial buildings.

    Critics have often criticized wind or solar energy installations because the wind doesn’t always blow and the sun doesn’t always shine. Intermittent sunshine has been overcome by building concentrating solar plants which, on sunny days, store energy as molten salts that are later used to produce steam turbines. It’s a system that is now being used in several places in the world, most notably Spain and the American Southwest.
    Now researchers have come up with ceramic heaters, which are nothing more than extremely dense ceramic blocks in insulated cabinets. The blocks store energy as heat when the wind is blowing, then release it slowly over the next day or two.

    The American experiments have been under construction for several months; the Summerside project is just beginning.

    Prince Edward Island produces a lot of wind power. The problem is that the wind tends to blow more at night when energy demand is low. Because of this, the province has been selling some of that surplus energy to mainland markets, but at low rates.
    http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id42531
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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