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Thread: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

  1. #46
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I started this thread to discuss a specific case of the cover up of child abuse. The site, due to the age range and to the dubious nature of the material, will not be hosting material on the side of the argument that justifies child abuse even when that material is used critically.

    Let's take it back on topic please.

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    I did quote The Guardian.

    I would have thought that politicians and their attitudes would have a large role to play in allowing cover ups of child abuse.
    Their lack of inaction on the issue, in effect, shows a level of culpability which I think should be discussed.

    In the case of Ireland it took from 21 October 1992 upon signing and ratifying the Convention on the Rights of the Child to 2007 to acheive practically nothing in terms of bringing in child protection laws.
    Politicians are just as culpable as the higher ranks in the Church in the cover up of abuse.

    It took the state 15 years to come up with this.
    15
    5. 1°
    Provision may be made by law for the collection and exchange

    of information relating to the endangerment, sexual exploitation
    or sexual abuse, or risk thereof, of children, or other persons of

    such a class or classes as may be prescribed by law.
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/b...407/b1407d.pdf

  2. #47
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    I agree that the role and attitude of politicians is important.

    How relevant is it to the OP in this case ? I think it would be better handled in a separate thread.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I agree that the role and attitude of politicians is important.

    How relevant is it to the OP in this case ? I think it would be better handled in a separate thread.
    Possibly a new thread alright. It annoys me though that programmes from the state broadcaster usually only address the failings of the church hierarchy in an oblique and maligned fashion. They usually never pay any attention to the attitudes of politicians, gardaí and legal system, and the lack of any attempt to implement or even promulgate laws pertinent to Child Protection.
    It's more a critique of the approach of the media and what seems to me to be editorialising in deference to the other side of the coin.
    The inaction of the Irish people and their elected representatives.

    The Vatican still has a hold on this country.

  4. #49
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    [quote=Munnkeyman;117668]Possibly a new thread alright. It annoys me though that programmes from the state broadcaster usually only address the failings of the church hierarchy in an oblique and maligned fashion. They usually never pay any attention to the attitudes of politicians, gardaí and legal system, and the lack of any attempt to implement or even promulgate laws pertinent to Child Protection.
    It's more a critique of the approach of the media and what seems to me to be editorialising in deference to the other side of the coin.
    The inaction of the Irish people and their elected representatives.

    +10

    The Vatican still has a hold on this country.
    I doubt that as they are no longer be listened to by many politicans or an Irish citiizen. I recall a remark by Cardinal Brady earlier this year that his views that he had spoken on various issues wasn't taken on board.

    I heard that some parents have a huge difficulty in persuading their children to go to mass as they get fobbed off. Also Xmas mass attendence was quite down in terms of numbers in my local parish.

    It's a possibility that Ireland may follow the path taken by UK in the past. some Catholics in UK moan about insular attitudes there.

  5. #50
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Munnkeyman View Post
    Possibly a new thread alright. It annoys me though that programmes from the state broadcaster usually only address the failings of the church hierarchy in an oblique and maligned fashion. They usually never pay any attention to the attitudes of politicians, gardaí and legal system, and the lack of any attempt to implement or even promulgate laws pertinent to Child Protection.
    It's more a critique of the approach of the media and what seems to me to be editorialising in deference to the other side of the coin.
    The inaction of the Irish people and their elected representatives.

    The Vatican still has a hold on this country.
    Can you relate this to the Walsh case ? I would have thought so...

  6. #51
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Can you relate this to the Walsh case ? I would have thought so...
    Absolutely,
    Walsh stated in 2009 that
    “As far back as 1990, I wasn’t a month in the job as a bishop, and I stood up at a meeting and I said that not alone should the police, who were already informed about an individual, but we should say where he was living and the number of his car, because I felt he was a danger.”
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...595036_pf.html
    This should have been investigated as it wasn't mentioned anywhere The Murphy Report.
    Seeing as he is a qualified barrister surely this little oversight should be investigated and maybe the Chief Justice might have disbarred him.
    Or maybe the Minister for Justice and Law Reform could have been brought to task in the Dáil.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/...html#article16

    (4) Where a registered lawyer has effectively and regularly pursued professional activities in the State under the home professional title for a period of at least 3 years but for a lesser period in the law of the State, the designated authority may apply the provisions of paragraph (1) in relation to the lawyer and to that end shall take into account -
    (a) the effective and regular professional activity pursued by the lawyer during such lesser period.
    (b) any knowledge and professional experience of the lawyer in relation to the law of the State, and
    (c) any attendance by the lawyer at lectures or seminars on the law of the State, including the rules regulating professional practice and conduct.
    Surely we couldn't allow barristers who refuse to acknowledge the laws of the country
    especially when it pertains to child abuse and allegations of perjury.
    Last edited by Munnkeyman; 03-02-2011 at 11:30 PM.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by matt View Post
    * Where will they apply anti-discrimination laws ? You may disagree with the Catholic Church's stance on women priests and homosexuality, but do they (EU) imagine that they can intervene on these beliefs ?
    Yes by economically harming those who have such beliefs.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture...aw-is-the-law/

    Its possible to slowly push to basically outlaw discrimination by punishing it. Human rights laws can push for this.

    Dont see any reason why this cant be applied to larger christian organisations.

    In the future I hope to see bans on teaching children creeds which have homophobic aspects.
    Last edited by A new lovers arrival; 07-02-2011 at 09:07 PM.

  8. #53
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Big new 900 page report out today names 300 priests in Pennsylvania

    https://www.npr.org/2018/08/14/63685...m_term=nprnews
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Big new 900 page report out today names 300 priests in Pennsylvania

    https://www.npr.org/2018/08/14/63685...m_term=nprnews
    It reinforces it that the Vatican can't be trusted ever no matter what. They should be banned or struck off as a state cos as a state it confers them powers to do something secretly for their benefits,not the abused kids who suffered psychological damage,physical et al. Once you remove them as a state, they would become just like any other business as they need money to run it and also to function as an organisation.

    Did you ever see one religious organisation run as a state apart from the Vatican?

  10. #55
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by disability student View Post
    It reinforces it that the Vatican can't be trusted ever no matter what. They should be banned or struck off as a state cos as a state it confers them powers to do something secretly for their benefits,not the abused kids who suffered psychological damage,physical et al. Once you remove them as a state, they would become just like any other business as they need money to run it and also to function as an organisation.

    Did you ever see one religious organisation run as a state apart from the Vatican?
    Disability Student, I am no defender of the Catholic Church, but it seems that the Church of England were possibly as bad.

    See this article from Sean O'Neill at the Times:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2...e-53179592953e

    If you don't wish to pay for a sub, you can sign up for a free account and read two articles per week for free.
    "If you go far enough to either extreme of the political spectrum, Communist or fascist, you'll find hard-eyed men with guns who believe that anybody who doesn't think as they do should be incarcerated or exterminated. " - Jim Garrison, Former DA, New Orleans.

  11. #56
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    Default Re: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    Thanks Pluralist re link which is behind the pay wall.

    Vatican is far a lot worse and callous & corrupted as well than COE as it's hugely systematic world wide abuses re thousands of abused people mostly kids all over the world.

    At the same time, they get away an awful lot with no accountability at all whatsoever cos they are the state which confers them special immunity and protection which the abused kids or families with abused kids don't have.

    Quite simply Bishops or the Vatican cant be trusted ever re their handling of abuses case.

    Finally clerical sex abuse investigator ex priest Richard Snipe died last week as he exposed hugely a deep rot in RCC, which had festered long since 1920's. It was he who helped to uncover the pattern of clergy sex abuses as he contributed to Boston Globe investigation re Cardinal Law and the movie 'spotlight'. He did warn certain bishop re Cardinal Carrick back in 2010 but ignored at will.

    The movie named 'mea maxima culpa silence in the house of god' was hard hitting and at the same time, seminal movie cos it showed us length and depth of Vatican's sheer arrogance and attitudes towards abused and their suffering families.

    It's a defining moment- a clincher if you like. It opens your eyes beyond the curtain re their sexual activities and of how they were protected up to a hilt by the vatican even the pope too. They knew all along but pretend nothing - better version is that they see no evil hear no evil as their MO.
    Last edited by disability student; 14-08-2018 at 10:15 PM.

  12. #57
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    Default Maidir Le: Where in the World - The Vatican and Child Abuse Cover-Up

    More coverage of the PA report............



    • More than 300 priests from Pennsylvania's Roman Catholic Church have been accused of sexual abuse over a 70-year period, according to a new report from a grand jury. The report also identified more than 1,000 victims (and implied there are many more) who were silenced in a cover-up scheme by various Pennsylvania bishops and church leaders. [AP / Mark Scolforo]
    • The Pennsylvania Supreme Court released the report, which discussed hundreds of church leaders who "largely escaped public accountability" and the Vatican officials who wanted to "avoid scandal," on Tuesday following an 18-month-long investigation into eight Catholic dioceses. [BBC]
    • The overarching theme of the report was the "systematic coverup by senior church officials in Pennsylvania and at the Vatican," as evidenced by the church's own records, according to Pennsylvania state Attorney General Josh Shapiro. [WPXI]
    • The president of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and the chair of the bishops' Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People said the Catholic Church is "shamed by and sorry for the sins and omissions" by its bishops and priests. [CNN / Daniel Burke and Susannah Cullinane]
    • The grand jury report is a result of the most extensive American investigation into abuse in the Catholic Church to date. [Washington Post / Michelle Boorstein]
    • Sex abuse survivors have called on the government to look into the US Catholic Church's history of abuse on a national level. But no federal investigation has been launched. [NYT / Laurie Goodstein]
    • The discovery follows a particularly rough year for the Vatican: Cardinal Theodore McCarrick — DC's former archbishop — resigned following accusations of sex abuse, dozens of Chilean church leaders resigned after an abuse cover-up went public, and an Australian archbishop was convicted of child sex abuse. [Vox / Emily Stewart]
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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