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Thread: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Its a fruitful line of enquiry alright CF and I did think that was a mistake by Lenihan when he implied in a response to Barrington in the Dail that it was a 'one-off liquidity breach'.

    Hostage to fortune there for Lennie and I would say by the sounds of it he asked someone to draft him an answer to Barrington's question. Any politician with any experience at all wouldn't take a punt on giving that 'one-off' response unless they had someone in the frame who they could blame if the news came out it was a consistent series of breaches ignored by regulator/DoF/Central Bank.

    If Lennie did take a punt and decide to try and dismiss the whole thing in one Dail answer then he may have made a huge mistake if it turns out the information he gave was ... incorrect, shall we say.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Cowen met Hurley on the 12th of September 07,
    3 days later
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0915/business.html


    These two would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
    http://www.angloirishbank.com/Media-...September.html

    http://www.angloirishbank.com/Media-...September.html
    Last edited by C. Flower; 28-11-2011 at 09:25 PM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Ryder View Post
    Astonishing. Evidence potentially of a pre-bailout 'bailout'. Each day reveals deeper layers of mendacity from Cowen and the Paedo Fáil administration. They're really lucky the death penalty is off the statute books.
    If a bailout of a private institution by the Central Bank was proposed, that would surely have been State Aid. Would it not have also required Daíl approval ? There were risks and costs attached.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie Lee View Post
    Cowen met Hurley on the 12th of September 07,
    3 days later
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0915/business.html


    These two would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
    http://www.angloirishbank.com/Media-...September.html

    http://www.angloirishbank.com/Media-...September.html
    Funny and interesting. The rosy picture of Anglo didn't stop a drop in the share price. Was that market sentiment, or insiders selling off? How can we square the circle of an apparent 15 bn liquidity buffer with a possible 8 billion Central Bank bailout ?

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    Its a fruitful line of enquiry alright CF and I did think that was a mistake by Lenihan when he implied in a response to Barrington in the Dail that it was a 'one-off liquidity breach'.
    What are you thinking here lads? I think I'm missing your point!

    I think YM is right - that a Unicredit subsidiary would not get emergency funding from the ICB. If emergency cash was required by Unicredit Ireland, it will have gone to its parent. I don't see how the wild-west behaviour in the IFSC banks could have directly affected our domestic troubles?

    The Whistleblower case shows that the regulator did not act when faced with a liquidity problem in an IFSC bank. (In 2008, when an insolvency issue in the domestic banking sector was mistaken for a liquidity issue, we know that the regulator was very active.... was it active in 2007 after Northern Rock and did we bail out Anglo then?)

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Quote Originally Posted by bokonon View Post
    What are you thinking here lads? I think I'm missing your point!

    I think YM is right - that a Unicredit subsidiary would not get emergency funding from the ICB. If emergency cash was required by Unicredit Ireland, it will have gone to its parent. I don't see how the wild-west behaviour in the IFSC banks could have directly affected our domestic troubles?

    The Whistleblower case shows that the regulator did not act when faced with a liquidity problem in an IFSC bank. (In 2008, when an insolvency issue in the domestic banking sector was mistaken for a liquidity issue, we know that the regulator was very active.... was it active in 2007 after Northern Rock and did we bail out Anglo then?)
    I agree with you here. The reason I mentioned the Whistleblower case is that it illustrates the general state of the banking sector at the time and the lax response of Government to it. Also that it prompted Lenihan's remark that the banks generally had liquidity problems at this time. I haven't suggested any other connection.

    I've also started taking a much closer look at 2007 and have started to back-date our Anglo timeline to 2007. If there is any information / key dates that would strike you as important I would like to include them.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I agree with you here. The reason I mentioned the Whistleblower case is that it illustrates the general state of the banking sector at the time and the lax response of Government to it. Also that it prompted Lenihan's remark that the banks generally had liquidity problems at this time. I haven't suggested any other connection.

    I've also started taking a much closer look at 2007 and have started to back-date our Anglo timeline to 2007. If there is any information / key dates that would strike you as important I would like to include them.
    Ah, I get you, thanks CF, I thought I was missing something.

    As far as I remember there is a banking timeline at the end of the Honohan Report that might be of interest...

    EDIT: Annex 5, http://www.bankinginquiry.gov.ie/The...02003-2008.pdf [Large PDF]

    EDIT: The Story article referenced above has moved from its front page to here: http://thestory.ie/2011/01/17/cowens...nglo-problems/

    See also this thread: http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...d=1#post205846
    Last edited by bokonon; 29-11-2011 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Update link

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Just spotted this on the pin - nice one Gavin..
    Quote Originally Posted by gavinsblog
    To help make it easier for everyone:

    I have combined and OCRd all the documents on the PAC website into one document, in chronological order:

    http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...s-pac-all.html

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Hat tip to Gavin on that (and Bokonon). That looks like an interesting read for a nerdy nuisance like me.

    Will be reading through that over next few days- all of it
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper on Bank Guarantees Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Page 61 - Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2009 - refers to Central Bank liquidity payments and to the Letter of Comfort.

    http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/a...l1_09_rev2.pdf

    2008 Report - Bank Stabilisation Measures

    http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/a...t_2008Rev1.pdf

    2007 Report

    http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/a...eport2007b.pdf
    Last edited by C. Flower; 28-11-2011 at 09:41 PM.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Secret D o F Paper Ruled Out Bank Guarantee Feb 08 - "Minister has No Legal Role Re Liquidity"

    Messenger boys for the banks, is exactly how they were shown to be today, in Cardiff's Banking Inquiry evidence.

    The banks roll up with a hand written scribble (Shelbourne Bar?) and present it to C and L who take he magic beans and sell us to the *****.s
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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