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Thread: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans and Cuts to Grants

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    Default The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans and Cuts to Grants

    The proposed "introduction of fees" and student loans being discussed now on Primetime.

    "National Strategy" here - http://www.hea.ie/en/node/1303

    Apologies -( link working now!.) It was either never there, or has been taken down....


    The higher education sector and the Irish government have recognised that the evolution of higher education within a rapidly changing global environment demands a strong and dynamic policy formulation process that will allow the system to meet new challenges. The Minister for Education and Science, Mr Batt O’Keeffe, T.D. launched a new national strategy for higher education in Ireland on Friday 6th February 2009 and announced the membership of a high level Strategy Group under the Chairmanship of Dr Colin Hunt, Managing Director of Macquarie Capital (Europe) Advisers.
    THis is all the HEA website could come up with
    Last edited by C. Flower; 07-09-2011 at 07:49 PM.

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Ruairi Quinn seems to be adamant to screw over students so Labour (if in power) can feed the bondholders of "our most distressed institutions". Of course he doesn't put it this way, he says it's inevitable since "Fianna Fáil put the country into receivership". I suppose we will hear this quite frequently in the foreseeable future.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    THe Hunt Report seems to have been pulled off the website ??

    A Canadian education blog says

    The Irish government has released a major report on post-secondary or third-level education as it is known in Ireland. The so-called "Hunt report" puts forward a 20-year strategy for development of the higher education sector.

    A draft of the National Strategy for Higher Education to 2030 report was previously leaked and published on the website of The Irish Times newspaper, and has been roundly criticized in the lead up to its official release.

    The report calls for major higher education funding reforms including the introduction of a "new form of direct student contribution based on an upfront fee with a deferred payment facility" and an accompanying student loan system. It also recommends alliances or mergers for many smaller institutions.


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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    THe Hunt Report seems to have been pulled off the website ??
    The Irish Times has the PDF here.
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 12-01-2011 at 12:30 AM.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    To pull it and not put up an explanatory note is bizarre.

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    This report just wants us all back to the primitive days when only 2/10 people can afford college-that was less than 20 years ago. A bus driver that i get on well with told me about how there are irish graduates making a fortune just out of college and having just got trades(one lad rooftiling and painting and decorating on 1600 euros after tax, and inflation is not exactly sky high there either). He says we'd all be mad to want to stay here if we all get degrees. Maybe's he's right. You'd have to wonder what would people like meself have done when leaving school if we hadnt college to go to first at least? I cant imgaine emigrating at 17 like my da did when he was 18 and just out of school with only 70 irish pound in his pocket!

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Ruairi Quinn seems to be adamant to screw over students so Labour (if in power) can feed the bondholders of "our most distressed institutions". Of course he doesn't put it this way, he says it's inevitable since "Fianna Fáil put the country into receivership". I suppose we will hear this quite frequently in the foreseeable future.
    Perhaps that would be because Quinn is chairman of a think tank which proposes privatisation of aspects of third-level education.
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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    This report just wants us all back to the primitive days when only 2/10 people can afford college-that was less than 20 years ago.
    I left college myself in '85. It wasn't so primitive. I attended DIT so it was probably different in the more established NUI/TCD colleges, but certainly the bulk of people in my course were from working class and lower middle-class background, many of whom qualified for grants to cover fees and (limited) expenses.

    Not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument here by any means, but I'd like to see some definitive analysis on trends in the rates of 3rd-level participation vs social classification.

    My wife did a Masters in DCU about 5 years ago and her observation, backed up by discussion with lecturers as I recall, was that rates of participation by working class students hadn't increased since the removal of fees, which is somewhat counter-intuitive.

    I'm not suggesting that removing the fee barrier will therefore make no difference to working class participation in 3rd level education, only saying it's not the sole determining factor. The standard argument holds that the route to 3rd level or otherwise is determinded the day a kid enters junior infants, and I buy into that argument. Lack of investment in primary and post-primary, where that lack of investment is both financial and motivational (for want of a better word), reduces the equality of outcomes in the education system as a whole. So absense of fees may be a necessary precondition, but it is insufficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    You'd have to wonder what would people like meself have done when leaving school if we hadnt college to go to first at least? I cant imgaine emigrating at 17 like my da did when he was 18 and just out of school with only 70 irish pound in his pocket!
    Well I emigrated to London in 1985 with 100 quid in my pocket, and my degree.

    Your point is a good one though. And the bigger question for the future is really whether having a degree will make any difference?

    There's a very good animation by the RSA which touches on the breakdown in the linkage between investing in a higher-level education as an entry to the secure world of the professions, and the reality that the expected return on that investment no longer holds true as it did in the previous generation. It's only a passing mention but the video is worth watching regardless.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U"]YouTube - RSA Animate - Changing Education Paradigms[/ame]

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    I fear that in a few years time the junior cert will be the highest level of education available to a vast majority of this country's children. The government's plan to return everthing to 1980's levels where only the smartest or wealthiest stayed on to do their leaving cert never mind going to college.

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    The Irish Times has the PDF here.
    That link is now working: it's to the Draft Report.

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Gary Redmond and other student elected leaders are objecting to the Hunt Report recommendations. How long before they're blaming students for demonstrating against them ?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...287413441.html

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Gary Redmond and other student elected leaders are objecting to the Hunt Report recommendations. How long before they're blaming students for demonstrating against them ?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...287413441.html
    Give them time. The haven't called any demo yet on the issue according to their website, perhaps they're hoping that if they ignore it for long enough pressure from students on the issue will go away.
    Нооруз пиээ пурылыа выиттыа


    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class'
    Pat Rabitte, 1987

    "Can I ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side?"
    Michael Noonan, November 2010

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    Default Re: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    We have a resource issue. Who'd have thunk it when all those pre election promises were being made..

    EDUCATION Minister Ruairi Quinn performed a U-turn on a key election promise last night by admitting he wouldn't reverse a €500 hike in college registration fees.

    And the minister refused to rule out the introduction of third-level fees and further student charges -- another pre-election pledge.

    The Labour Party minister admitted the student registration charge will rise to €2,000 per student in September -- despite promising before the general election that he would not support the €500 increase.

    Mr Quinn refused to be drawn on whether there would be a re-introduction of fees to offset a funding crisis in the third-level sector.

    The Government is now expected to make a decision on that by the end of the year.

    If fees, loans or new charges are brought in, they would kick in from the September 2012 academic year.

    The issue is set to be another bone of contention between the coalition partners.

    The minister said the issue of finance at third level would have to be addressed, but as yet no proposals were being considered.
    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-2661544.html
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    We have a resource issue. Who'd have thunk it when all those pre election promises were being made..



    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-2661544.html
    Im sure grants will be cut by 15% odd this year and that I wont get them until after xmas again. Saving up on a wage of 6quid p/h by 50 hours(seven days a week!) For france in sept and ill be renting a flat for 60 a week on pittance. Hope theyve cheap beans for us irish serfs over there! The nerve of these people is unreal. People my age are working long hours for slave rates and we try and give some of that pitiful wage to our unemployed/underemployed parents and are robbed from at every turn. Anger isnt the word. Try scaffold. It costs 500k a year for quinn and every minister. Thats over a hundred grants per minister being denied to students of indebted families

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    Last edited by Apjp; 31-05-2011 at 01:47 PM.

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    Default Maidir Le: The Hunt Report - Student Fees and Loans

    Interesting you chose to bump this thread today. Ruairi Quinn definitively rowed back on his pre-election promises to reverse the fee-hikes

    HOW MUCH are pre-election promises worth? Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn executed a U-turn on college fees yesterday. In the course of the election campaign, Mr Quinn – then Labour Party spokesman on education – opposed a €500 increase in the student contribution fee. He went further; saying that he would reverse the increase once in office. Less than 100 days later, Mr Quinn is refusing to rule out new student fees and/or additional student charges. In an RTÉ radio interview, he said the pledge he made in February no longer stands.

    In mitigation he cites “new facts’’ about the scale of exchequer indebtedness, giving him less room for manoeuvre. He is probably right. The parties in the new Coalition clearly thought they had more room for manoeuvre than they actually have. But, as a well informed education spokesman in opposition, Mr Quinn was fully au fait with the funding crisis facing the higher education system during the election campaign. More than most, he realised the issue of fees would have to be addressed sooner or later. In this context, the commitment which he made to the Union of Students in Ireland (USI) is now stood down.

    The salient “new fact’’ is that Mr Quinn is now Minister with responsibility for the third-level sector. The gravity of the financial challenge remains as it was when the Hunt report on the sector was published in January. The report, which charts a 20-year strategy, backed new student fees and a student loan scheme. The current funding model, it said, was “unsustainable”, warning that continuing cuts in State support would damage overall standards. It said annual funding must increase by €500 million a year, from €1.3 billion to €1.8 billion by 2020 if academic quality and the full range of student services were to be maintained. It also said funding should virtually double to €2.25 billion a year by 2030.

    Mr Quinn now concedes it is “hard to see’’ how higher education can meet the lofty targets set for it by Government without new revenue streams. He has asked the Higher Education Authority (HEA) to examine the funding crisis ahead of expected Cabinet discussions in the autumn on possible new charges.

    In all of this, there is a distinct sense of deja vu. In the past decade, two former education ministers Noel Dempsey and Batt O’Keeffe acknowledged the desperate need for more higher education funding. Both pushed for new charges, only to be thwarted by the Progressive Democrats and the Green Party respectively. As a result, an under-funded third-level system is creaking at the edges with university presidents and the HEA hinting a “cap” on student numbers may be necessary to maintain quality.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...298143707.html

    Again, Labour betray those who voted for them.
    Нооруз пиээ пурылыа выиттыа


    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class'
    Pat Rabitte, 1987

    "Can I ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side?"
    Michael Noonan, November 2010

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