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Thread: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

  1. #1
    People Korps Guest

    Default Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    The state of State control is being aided by the hysterical response to the so called terror threat and the fake fear engendered by the so called war on terror and the resulting alleged terrorist threat. British cops now seek the right to stop and search anyone they please without any reason to suspect them.
    Ireland already has such laws.

    Given the fact that the IRA and INLA were are far more effective and threatening terrorist organisations in the 1970s-90s how can people buy into this rubbish now?

    When will people say enough is enough and demand the right to bear water at airports and walk the streets their taxes pay for without police and state harassment then we may say we live in a society until then we are being merely turned into slaves.

    With the further erosion of civil liberties and attacks by so called enlightened states on human rights is it time for a revolution?
    Are we allowed to advocate for the overthrow of the apparatus of state terrorism if they create an unsafe and unfree environment for our children?

    What are our rights if we decide to advocate for our basic freedoms: would it be just to take up arms against states that deny us human rights and freedom?

    We must decide to do what is necessary to preserve our freedom and that action!
    The likelihood of being hit by a train, killed by lightening or dying of state sponsored drugs like tobacco is far more real than the possibility of one being harmed by terrorists. Any thoughts?

    Surely, if states refuse to allow us to walk our own streets unmolested by state agencies is it the right of citizens in democracies to overthrow those states?

    Are people being forced to decide that the only correct response to the fake fear factory of the alleged war on terror is to engage in a real war against the states that perpetrate those threats against their citizenry?
    Should the increasingly frequent new powers by states that breach our human rights be resisted? If so how?
    If there are no democratic alternatives to the erosion of our freedoms what must we do?

    If states insist on breaching our human rights is it our right as humans to overthrow those states?


    Police have asked the government for a new counter-terrorism power to stop and search people without having to suspect them of involvement in crime, the Guardian has learned.

    Senior officers have told the government the new law is needed to better protect the public against attempted attacks on large numbers of people, and are hopeful they can win ministers' backing.

    A previous law allowing counter-terrorism stops without suspicion, section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000, was scrapped this year by the home secretary, Theresa May, after European judges struck it down for breaching human rights.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/de...-search-powers
    Last edited by People Korps; 30-12-2010 at 12:13 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Seriously now, PK, when was the last time you were stopped and harassed by anyone other than a beggar ? And did Christy Moore write a song about it ?

  3. #3
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsedmethodist View Post
    Seriously now, PK, when was the last time you were stopped and harassed by anyone other than a beggar ? And did Christy Moore write a song about it ?
    The older I get the less I get stopped but then i am not from the Divis , North Africa, pakistan or the Arab World , am not black and generally dont wear my turban.
    However that is not the point.

    I dont think states should have unlimited powers and certainly not cops or their more sinister branches , they perpetuate falsehoods as they seek more power pourquoi ? I dont see what they need more power for they can already listen to every word we say, read everything we write, and generally dont seem to be able to know or find out what they should know. What will giving them more powers do to help them in their quest other than to give them the power to harass?

    As you and I know no decent terrorist will be caught by any of the blanket methods that they seek in these laws.
    Like you I could organise a strict a secret organisation for breakfast and be active by tea time without anyone being the wiser (as could any primary school teacher who has read his Irish history) so why are they looking all these powers that breach our human rights?

    Democracy is running scared, if we take the example of Gladstone ...he introduced habeas corpus suspension at least four times yet he also tried to ameliorate the underlying causes of tensions. I see no attempt at amelioration these days only attempts at escalation and the further erosion of everyones human rights.
    If not for ourselves we must resist this rubbish for our children's sake.

    You must be au fait with Pastor Martin Niemöller who wrote
    They came first for the Communists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and by that time no one was left to speak up.
    Last edited by People Korps; 30-12-2010 at 12:09 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by People Korps View Post
    The older I get the less I get stopped but then i am not from the Divis , North Africa, pakistan or the Arab World , am not black and generally dont wear my turban.
    However that is not the point.

    I dont think states should have unlimited powers and certainly not cops or their more sinister branches , they perpetuate falsehoods as they seek more power pourquoi ? I dont see what they need more power for they can already listen to every word we say, read everything we write, and generally dont seem to be able to know or find out what they should know. What will giving them more powers do to help them in their quest other than to give them the power to harass?

    As you and I know no decent terrorist will be caught by any of the blanket methods that they seek in these laws.
    Like you I could organise a strict a secret organisation for breakfast and be active by tea time without anyone being the wiser (as could any primary school teacher who has read his Irish history) so why are they looking all these powers that breach our human rights?

    Democracy is running scared, if we take the example of Gladstone ...he introduced habeas corpus suspension at least four times yet he also tried to ameliorate the underlying causes of tensions. I see no attempt at amelioration these days only attempts at escalation and the further erosion of everyones human rights.
    If not for ourselves we must resist this rubbish for our children's sake.

    You must be au fait with Pastor Martin Niemöller who wrote
    PK some of what you say is true, but when it comes to suicide bombers surely to the stakes are higher, would you not agree?

  5. #5
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    I have redacted in my OP my knee jerk reactions to what is fast becoming the straw that is breaking the camels back.
    I dont advocate citizens militias nor the right to bear arms. Off the top of my head I can think of two countrys where owning AK47s is legal Iraq and the USA is legal but they are probably more.
    However in the UK where these new las are sought the rights of unions and public protest are throughly eroded by law. Note the recent mass imprisonment on the streets of children protest in so callled kettling, even the use of that word reduces the reality to a "policing" exercise.
    What if some idiot outside the kettle decided to snipe at police? Where would fredom in the UK be then ? More emergency powers?
    Something needs to be done by a mass kovemnet of the citizens to tell sates that they may only go so far. I am at a lose as to what measures we can take to ensure our future freedom and arrest the further erosion of our constitutional and human rights under emergemcy legislations introduced to combat phanthom and faux enemies.
    the danger for government and democracy is real and sadly most is coming from governments themselves.

  6. #6
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifeisagame View Post
    PK some of what you say is true, but when it comes to suicide bombers surely to the stakes are higher, would you not agree?


    Higher than non suicide bombers using one ton of 10 10 20 with sequenced semtex detonation as in Bishopsgate? see http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6730000/newsid_6730000/6730055.stm?bw=nb&mp=rm&news=1&ms3=4&ms_javascript =true&bbcws=2I


    I dont think so. A suicide bomber can't personally carry the same amount of explosives as the IRA used many times in central London.
    So are the stakes really higher 19 years later?
    I dont think so and I was evacuated and therefore potentially nearly killed by many of my own countrymen's efforts in the 1980s and 1990s in London.
    No there is something at work here which is essentially creating the fear to change all laws with the meek acquiescence of the population.
    Think of what I said about Gladstone...he amnestied the Fenians in 1869-71 , he introduced the 1882 Land Act in response to the Land League, he betrayed his Liberal agenda first by introducing haebus corpus suspension and then sought to ameliorate the causes of revolt and then attempted to uphold some rule of law by compromise. Who among the global leaders is thinking of compromise despite being engaged , as Gladstone was, in wars they know they cant win by force alone.

    We have bad leaders therefore we have threats but not unsurmountable ones.
    It is easy to make war who has the courage to make peace?
    Last edited by People Korps; 30-12-2010 at 12:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    PK... what you see is like a swan. The powers are optics basically while underneath the water the intelligence services are furiously paddeling.

  8. #8
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    I like swans but it sounds like these ones need to have their little webbed feet chopped off or at least shackled .

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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by People Korps View Post
    What are our rights if we decide to advocate for our basic freedoms: would it be just to take up arms against states that deny us human rights and freedom?
    PK Re: "hysterical response" I do not agree with your approach of like verses like as being in any way remotely near the answer to errosion of civil liberties. Maybe a spell under another regieme would make you very glad of the rights and protection you do have in Ireland or the UK. While the laws are not perfect I think you are a little strung out to be advocating taking up arms; While Paine and other philosophers may have advocated such line of action --they had not got the same use and access to the Courts that you have. Maybe you might consider advocating for people to take ownership of the Courts by ventolating your discontent through civil actions such as Judicial Reviews --having lost all these freedoms you allege then only after the Courts show a consistentency in returning perverse judgments (if you are correct) will your whole speel hold water. If your rights have been unjustly curtailed then take legal action and have them re-affirmed. If the hysterical rant you have put up thus far is an indicator of how valid a case you have is anything to go by then I understand why you would rather shoot first and think later.
    Last edited by Christy Walsh; 30-12-2010 at 03:05 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    look at what is happening in Denmark at the moment, a lot of airtime on Press TV, we are back to those cartoons again, cops letting vigilante bikers deal with muslims. IMO there is a massive con job going on around Europe at present, hysteria suits the chosen few. Make the muslim your enemy, take you eye of the banks and the erosion of basic human rights. The suited gangstas are running the show. Bush's "terrorism policies and "axis of evil" propaganda has made it way over to Europe. Fascim is coming to a town near you.
    Last edited by wickedfairy; 30-12-2010 at 03:38 PM.
    "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by sword. The other is by debt." -- John Adams

  11. #11
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy Walsh View Post
    PK Re: "hysterical response" I do not agree with your approach of like verses like as being in any way remotely near the answer to errosion of civil liberties. Maybe a spell under another regieme would make you very glad of the rights and protection you do have in Ireland or the UK. While the laws are not perfect I think you are a little strung out to be advocating taking up arms; While Paine and other philosophers may have advocated such line of action --they had not got the same use and access to the Courts that you have. Maybe you might consider advocating for people to take ownership of the Courts by ventolating your discontent through civil actions such as Judicial Reviews --having lost all these freedoms you allege then only after the Courts show a consistentency in returning perverse judgments (if you are correct) will your whole speel hold water. If your rights have been unjustly curtailed then take legal action and have them re-affirmed. If the hysterical rant you have put up thus far is an indicator of how valid a case you have is anything to go by then I understand why you would rather shoot first and think later.
    Firstly Christy asking a question about whether something is justified is not necessarily advocating it. Secondly I have lived in many countries under many different types of regime from democracy, participative democracy and even one absolute monarchy.
    I have also been on the periphery of several cases in Ireland leading to Supreme Court rulings in favor of the plaintiff (the side I supported) however victory ie an unfavorable outcome for the government led to and can lead to a rapid change in legislation negating the victory.

    If actually you bothered to read Paine then please bother to read the OP again and try not to be so condescending when you have failed to actually read what you are commenting on.

    Is Mise Le Meas PK

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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by People Korps View Post
    Firstly Christy asking a question about whether something is justified is not necessarily advocating it.
    Your posting is slightly hysterical and your questions lean toward the suggestive rather than probative which makes your post form of advocating (as you appear to acknowledge yourself by using the qualifier "necessarily")

    Yes the Government is unfair an no government will ever be any thing else (albeit some maybe more than others). Yes I have read Paine and others and I am very aware of a multitude of legal cases. And I have read your posting and re-affirm my opinion about your rant.

  13. #13
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    I use the word necessarily in order to highlight the conclusion you jump too. However I cannot deny that as a rational supporter of the rule of law and democracy that my brain is sore attempting to comprehend the revision of standards that is being spoon fed to populations previously weened on the faux threat to them personally from so called islamic militants. In my second post down you will note my references to Gladstone

    I will highlight these paragraphs
    Think of what I said about Gladstone...he amnestied the Fenians in 1869-71 , he introduced the 1882 Land Act in response to the Land League, he betrayed his Liberal agenda first by introducing haebus corpus suspension and then sought to ameliorate the causes of revolt and then attempted to uphold some rule of law by compromise. Who among the global leaders is thinking of compromise despite being engaged , as Gladstone was, in wars they know they cant win by force alone.

    We have bad leaders therefore we have threats but not unsurmountable ones.
    It is easy to make war who has the courage to make peace?
    __________________
    One thing that is obvious is that it will be those far more extreme than I who will reap the laurels of this fear factory. You seem to have a legal perspective on these matters so you will be aware of the legality of Mr Hitler's regime. Indeed the nazis were quite scrupulous in making laws which essentially allowed for their regimes' worst excesses to be quite legal under German national laws.

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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by People Korps View Post
    Given the fact that the IRA and INLA were are far more effective and threatening terrorist organisations in the 1970s-90s how can people buy into this rubbish now?
    I have read all your posts not least the comment your above which was/is when all sort of coercive and draconian measures were introduced demonising and discriminating against the nationalist community as a whole, up north, and against Irish generally throughout the UK. I agree that US and Uk governments have hyped and manufactured a false war and are using that to curb freedoms but responding with hype is not really convincing either. In the whole, and not necessarily your argument, but the lines are often drawn that to oppose errosions on civil liberties includes one not having any critical view of radical islam or any other group one relates to as being 'terrorists'. It also means that valid groups are quickly labeled as 'terrorists' to discount them --while the IRA and INLA did resort to acts of terrorism at times where they terrorists? Or where they freedom fighters, who, at times did not fight ethically? The same can then be asked of any Islamic group and one can come to differing opinions --those groups fighting in village ghettos could be considered to be very different to those who take hostages and rather than killing them humanly they make public spectical of their victim before savagely beheading them and on occassion dragging the corpse through the streets before hanging them from lamp posts. These things exist and these same people would have no difficulty getting on planes with liquid explosives. Travellers have a right to in some way be protected from being blown up as do residents living below an air corridor. A balance must be struck between what is reasonable and justified and what is just outright abuse of process and authority. That is where the courts come in and I think people should use them more and even if the case is lost --the courts reasoning might even be a view point one had not relised and the sense of injustice is no longer so accute. But in real unjust curtailments then the Court can take positive action --but it needs to be persuaded to do so.

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    Default Re: Faux War on terror used to further erode human rights

    Quote Originally Posted by People Korps View Post
    I like swans but it sounds like these ones need to have their little webbed feet chopped off or at least shackled .
    I know a lot of Northerners who thought like that, until they were scraping their family or friends off the road.

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