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Thread: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

  1. #1
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    Default Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ilm?CMP=twt_gu

    The whole Wikileaks operation imo needs to be treated with care and possibly with kid gloves. So far it has resulted in the world media being flooded with US "secret diplomatic cables" that have been largely accepted as bona fide and which are setting the agenda for political concepts and discussion. So far, I haven't read any claims that the leaks are untrue, but experience has taught me that a swift denial (say of yesterday's Wikileaks on Fatah co-operation with Israeli secret services) is not forthcoming as there is confusion within governments and organisations on whether or not these "secret cables" might be correct.

    Now, Michael Moore has shown that the content of one of the cables is pure invention designed to demonise Cuba.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ilm?CMP=twt_gu

    My confidence in Assange, and Wikileaks, was never high and has gone down a further few notches, whether it is just ineptness and naivety or deliberate agenda setting and disinformation.


    American diplomats made up a story that Cuba banned Michael Moore's 2007 documentary, Sicko, in an attempt to discredit the film which painted an unflattering picture of the US healthcare system, the film-maker said today.
    A confidential US embassy cable released by WikiLeaks claimed that Castro's government banned the Oscar-nominated film because it painted such a "mythically" favourable picture of Cuba's healthcare system that the authorities feared it could lead to a "popular backlash".
    But Moore said that far from being supressed by Havana, the film – which attempted to discredit the US healthcare system by highlighting what it claimed was the excellence of the Cuban system – was shown on national television.
    The film-maker said on his blog that the diplomatic cable, dated 31 January 2008, was "a stunning look at the Orwellian nature of how bureaucrats for the state spin their lies and try to recreate reality (I assume to placate their bosses and tell them what they want to hear)".
    He added: "The entire nation of Cuba was shown the film on national television on April 25, 2008! The Cubans embraced the film so much so it became one of those rare American movies that received a theatrical distribution in Cuba. I personally ensured that a 35mm print got to the Film Institute in Havana. Screenings of 'Sicko' were set up in towns all across the country."
    The confidential US memo claims that when the film was shown to a group of Cuban doctors, some became so "disturbed at the blatant misrepresentation of healthcare in Cuba that they left the room".
    It claims the film was banned because the Cuban government "knows the film is a myth and does not want to risk a popular backlash by showing to Cubans facilities that are clearly not available to the vast majority of them".
    Sicko investigated healthcare in the US by comparing the for-profit, non-universal US system with the non-profit universal health care systems of other countries, including Cuba, France and the UK.
    It was nominated for an Oscar for best documentary feature but was also castigated for being naive and tendentious.
    The cable comes from the United States Interests Section in Havana (USINT) – staffed by US foreign service personnel and local staff employed by the department of state, the unit is formally a section of the Embassy of Switzerland, although it operates independently of the Swiss in virtually all but protocol respects.
    The secret 2008 cable is based on reports from the USINT's foreign service health practitioner (FSHP) supposedly based on her conversations with local people, unauthorised visits to Cuban hospitals, and experience of helping USINT American and Cuban personnel access healthcare.
    The cable describes a visit made by the FSHP to the Hermanos Ameijeiras hospital in October 2007. Built in 1982, the newly renovated hospital was used in Michael Moore's film as evidence of the high quality of healthcare available to all Cubans.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 21-12-2010 at 02:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    CF are you sure about this? I've read the article you linked and it says clearly at the bottom that a US official 'made up' a report which was then sent to the state department ... remember if the Americans are arranging propaganda then they could easily arrange for any report they like to be sent through official or unofficial channels back to the states.

    Perhaps I'm not seeing what you are seeing?
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    What we have here is a disagreement between Wikileaks and Michael Moore ... I don't see how this discredits Wikileaks?
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    What we have here is a disagreement between Wikileaks and Michael Moore ... I don't see how this discredits Wikileaks?
    Fair point. I'm taking it for granted that he isn't lying when he says that "Sicko" was shown on Cuban television.

    My point is that at best Wikileaks is indiscrimately flooding a mass of State Department political material out via some fairly intel friendly newspaper outlets, redacted by them, and that the impact of this is a big boost to the US agenda and portrayal of events. A quick look through the Iran-related material would bear this out.

    In the Moore case, the content of the cable has been shown to be fake. It was released by Wikileaks presumably without any factual checking that any good investigative journalist dealing with such a story would have undertaken.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Well they have got a quarter of a million documents and once they were verified as being real US embassy cables then I don't see how they could start investigating how each one was either kosher or a cable which helped with a state department position on Cuba.

    I understand your caution re the cables but why Cuba? If they were going to fit something up to embarrass Wikileaks wouldn't it be more likely to do with something around Afghanistan or Iraq?

    The documents are genuine. The US political scene has erupted while I'm aware that the yank spooks have plenty of form with false-flag operations I don't see what the gain would be for them in running such a massively tricky operation never mind offending half the international diplomatic corps.

    Also there is the question of how these documents were obtained. How could the US arrange to spot the right Pfc in Bradley Manning and trust that he'd hand over the docs to Wikileaks?

    Manning would have to be CIA to make this look even remotely believable and while I remain very suspicious that an army private could have access to that kind of intel on a daily basis I am also aware that the US army can be spectacularly incompetent.

    It is funny though how the yanks aren't screaming for the head of the senior officer involved or I haven't seen much about them putting intel officers to the sword for allowing a goofy private to copy embassy private cables and walk out the door with them on a Lady Ga Ga CD.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    It is funny though how the yanks aren't screaming for the head of the senior officer involved or I haven't seen much about them putting intel officers to the sword for allowing a goofy private to copy embassy private cables and walk out the door with them on a Lady Ga Ga CD.
    How many hours of copying would have been required by this intel officer/private?
    Were not all those Iraq docs and also the cables of the entire globe siphoned off by him?

    It was Cuba, not Wikileaks, that was initially damaged by the disinformation in the US cable. The info could easily have been innocently passed on by Wikileaks. Moore suggests that it was compiled/faked up by local agents in Cuba to please the bosses.
    Haven't we seen the same sort of thing done here in Donegal?

    Wikileaks could be

    -entirely bona fide and a good thing
    -bona fide but inept and celebrity-seeking
    -fake
    -even possibly all of the above, in parts.

    I don't know, but am inclined to discount "entirely bona fide and a good thing" because of the hype and the channelling of info via the likes of the Guardian (which recently ran the fake "stoning" story ad nauseam) are a poor show.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 21-12-2010 at 03:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    I absolutely agree that it is right to be cautious for the moment. After all I've watched Declan Ganley suddenly decide after various financial shenanigans in the Baltics to return to his family's roots (not Watford where he was born) and come over all anti-Lisbon.

    In my personal opinion Ganley absolutely reeks of CIA/pentagon and of course thats where his business interests lie. In fact I'd put a hefty bet on that Libertas is just another yank initiative to sow discord within the EU but of course other people may have other opinions and until such time as confirmed or not then equally valid.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  8. #8
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ilm?CMP=twt_gu

    The whole Wikileaks operation imo needs to be treated with care and possibly with kid gloves. So far it has resulted in the world media being flooded with US "secret diplomatic cables" that have been largely accepted as bona fide and which are setting the agenda for political concepts and discussion. So far, I haven't read any claims that the leaks are untrue, but experience has taught me that a swift denial (say of yesterday's Wikileaks on Fatah co-operation with Israeli secret services) is not forthcoming as there is confusion within governments and organisations on whether or not these "secret cables" might be correct.

    Now, Michael Moore has shown that the content of one of the cables is pure invention designed to demonise Cuba.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ilm?CMP=twt_gu

    My confidence in Assange, and Wikileaks, was never high and has gone down a further few notches, whether it is just ineptness and naivety or deliberate agenda setting and disinformation.
    Cactus ... what has the content of the cables- true or false- got the slightest bit to do with Julian Assange.

    Once again I stress these arew diplomatic cables - these are journalistic scoops.

    My confidence in Assange, and Wikileaks, was never high and has gone down a further few notches, whether it is just ineptness and naivety or deliberate agenda setting and disinformation.

    Ineptness!!!!! Naievty!!!!!

    Indeed.

    Assange did not write the cables .... US embassies did.

    There are a lot of people no doubt being paid a lot of money to besmirch Assange's character...and I am sure State and the Pentagon are just thrilled by all the volunteers they are getting from the most unlikely quarters.

    You seem to be waiting the cables to confirm YOUR view of the USA.

    And you seem suspicious of the fact that the cables reflect US interests and US world views.

    Which is truly bizarre as the cables are bacially a gossip column of US interests and US world views.

    "Now, Michael Moore has shown that the content of one of the cables is pure invention designed to demonise Cuba."

    You can't be serious. Pure invendition!! Demonising Cuba!!! No US embassy would do that.

    Once again -
    You find the US suspicious.
    You find the cables suspicious.
    The cables claim to be the voice of US diplomacy.
    Ergo you they are suspicious to you.

    NOW why does Assange go down a 'few notches' for providing paper that shows you a suspicious crew acting suspiciously?

    It's staring at you:

    "It was Cuba, not Wikileaks, that was initially damaged by the disinformation in the US cable."

    BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    What we have here is a disagreement between Wikileaks and Michael Moore ... I don't see how this discredits Wikileaks?
    Yes sir, capt!


    Cactus, I think you should change the title or the wording thereof of this thread. As it stands, not alone is it pernicious, it is wrong.
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 22-12-2010 at 01:42 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    What we have here is a disagreement between Wikileaks and Michael Moore ... I don't see how this discredits Wikileaks?
    No... we have a disagreement between the US diplomats and Michael Moore.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    In the Moore case, the content of the cable has been shown to be fake.
    How?

    Wikileaks says US Diplomats made up a story about Sicko.

    That is true. That is not a lie.

    Now on the other hand, the story that US diplomats made up.. that *is* a lie.

    Am I missing something here? If make some **** up and send it to Cactus via Twitter. I have lied to Cactus, not Twitter. Twitter isn't the liar, I am.

    Likewise, WikiLeaks isn't the liar here.

  11. #11
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by eoinmn View Post
    No... we have a disagreement between the US diplomats and Michael Moore.
    Correct...I was agreeing with the Capt's conclusion.

    It seems people are OD-ing on McLuhan and we have a scenario where the (leak) medium becomes the message, its author and its ideological defender.

    Then there's the man in the medium, and, let's not forget, Manning in jail.

  12. #12
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    How many hours of copying would have been required by this intel officer/private?
    Were not all those Iraq docs and also the cables of the entire globe siphoned off by him?

    It was Cuba, not Wikileaks, that was initially damaged by the disinformation in the US cable. The info could easily have been innocently passed on by Wikileaks. Moore suggests that it was compiled/faked up by local agents in Cuba to please the bosses.
    Haven't we seen the same sort of thing done here in Donegal?

    Wikileaks could be

    -entirely bona fide and a good thing
    -bona fide but inept and celebrity-seeking
    -fake
    -even possibly all of the above, in parts.

    I don't know, but am inclined to discount "entirely bona fide and a good thing" because of the hype and the channelling of info via the likes of the Guardian (which recently ran the fake "stoning" story ad nauseam) are a poor show.
    Fcuked if you do. Fcuked if you don't.

    Before deciding to grant access to the "likes of the Guardian" - Mr Assange was assailed from all sides,including posters on this site, for now having "blood on his hands" his alleged irresponisibility in outing sources etc.

    Smarting a little from these charges, Mr Assange first offered the US Gov the chance to edit out any endangered innocents.
    The offer was rebuffed.

    Then Mr Assange decided to grant access to editorial teams from what are deemed to be some of the best (funded) global papers ..."the likes of the Guardian" ...so that they could cast a supposedly impartial eye over the contents before publishing.

    This appears to have sparked off an office feud...and has led to the creation of another leak site.
    (Great by me! Others seem to suggest that the new one is good but Wiki might not be.)

    Does anyone have any suggestion how Mr Assange might have done this in a better manner.

    All these countless caveats about Wiki add up to an impression.
    An impression that complements the picture being painted by the enemy - Sarah Pailin et al.
    The enemy is well funded and has huge media clout.
    Mr Assange is in their sights.

    And here's another example of the opposition at play- those hipsters at Applehttp://voices.washingtonpost.com/fas...from_appl.html

    I truly do not believe he should be in ours - of all people.

    I believe that Wikileaks or, as Mr Assange powerfully advocates, the idea of adding a little edge to government accountability is in the interests of civilisation.

    So is there any chance we can treat a man doing a righteous thing in a civilised manner? Innocent until proven guilty for a start.

    And perhaps a little effort not to contribute to the undermining of his character and certainly not the mission.

    We already had postings about Assange in the pay of the Israelis.
    Why?
    Israel came out in a pretty good light in the cables.
    What cables?
    US cables.
    What country?
    Israel.
    What light?
    Favourable.

    (Repeat as necessary)

    Now of course this wild theory was backed by the Syriatruth newspaper with the claim that a 'secret videotape' was made where Mr Assange got loads of wedge.

    The only problem with this global scoop is the secrecy of the secret tape.

    Can we please give Wikileaks a break?

    If it makes any of you happy - I believe Lapsed is spending those lonely hours before dawn hunting down dirt on Julian.
    And if he, who dines on the blood of Christian babies, has nothing spectacular to report yet, maybe...maybe there is nothing there.
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 22-12-2010 at 04:08 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Sicko by Michael Moore

    here is Sicko by Michael Moore (found this on a great site with tons of documentaries!! Christmas viewing sorted yay!) Compulsive viewing, like all of his documentaries. Note the similarities with the Irish Health system (we are nearer to Boston than Berlin Harney and how right she is there). Shocking stuff. Cuba heathservice is well ahead of Merkias (footage of a patient being dumped out of a car in her hospital gown).

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/sicko/
    Last edited by wickedfairy; 23-12-2010 at 02:32 PM.
    "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by sword. The other is by debt." -- John Adams

  14. #14
    People Korps Guest

    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    We already had postings about Assange in the pay of the Israelis.
    Why?
    Israel came out in a pretty good light in the cables.
    What cables?
    US cables.
    What country?
    Israel.
    What light?
    Favourable.

    (Repeat as necessary)

    .
    +1
    We already had postings about Assange in the pay of the Israelis.
    Why?
    Israel came out in a pretty good light in the cables.
    What cables?
    US cables.
    What country?
    Israel.
    What light?
    Favourable.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Wikileaks Leaks False Story That Michael Moore's "Sicko" Was Banned in Cuba

    Quote Originally Posted by People Korps View Post
    +1
    We already had postings about Assange in the pay of the Israelis.
    Why?
    Israel came out in a pretty good light in the cables.
    What cables?
    US cables.
    What country?
    Israel.
    What light?
    Favourable.
    Where are the postings here that say Assange is in the pay of the Israelis?
    MY OP asks legitimate questions. The response is hysterical.

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