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Thread: Seán Garland benefit -Leading trade unionists and political figures oppose extradition

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    As per usual, wannabe pseudo-revolutionaries are ending up on the side of reaction. Quelle surprise.
    And loads of progressives supporting Garland. 60 odd Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, etc. TD's and Senators. The real revolutionaries.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    And loads of progressives supporting Garland. 60 odd Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, etc. TD's and Senators. The real revolutionaries.
    Just goes to show what an outrage the attempt to extradite Garland is that even people with radically different politics can see that.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    Just goes to show what an outrage the attempt to extradite Garland is that even people with radically different politics can see that.
    The same people who took the paychecks and turned a blind eye to the renditions going through Shannon.......he may be a gangster but he's our gangster.

    (edit mod SL)
    Last edited by Sam Lord; 20-07-2011 at 12:16 AM.
    "Do not be misled by the promises of politicians. Remember that the whole history of Ireland is a record of betrayals by politicians and statesmen, and remembering this, spurn their lying promises and stand up for a United Ireland - an Ireland broad based upon the union of Labour and Nationality." - James Connolly.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Yeah, I'm the one defending the leader/former leader of an organised crime gang. It's a bit like the personality cult followers of Adams when you think about it. Dear Leader can do no wrong and we must lash out at those who suggest otherwise. To think your outfit spent all those years touting on the Adamsites when there was so little seperating you.
    Last edited by Sam Lord; 20-07-2011 at 12:59 AM.
    "Do not be misled by the promises of politicians. Remember that the whole history of Ireland is a record of betrayals by politicians and statesmen, and remembering this, spurn their lying promises and stand up for a United Ireland - an Ireland broad based upon the union of Labour and Nationality." - James Connolly.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    I don't see any personality cult. Maybe some discussion of a politically-motivated attack on a progressive politician, one who has spent decades working for the Irish working class and fighting sectarianism.

    As for the tout thing etc, don't you ever get bored of repeating the same nonsense?

    Oh, and here is a form for joining the IRSP. I know you admired Costello so much you used to use a photo of him as your avatar. Well, why not have the courage of your convictions and join up. (Edit mod SL)

    http://www.irsp.ie/joinus.html
    Last edited by Sam Lord; 20-07-2011 at 12:18 AM.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    I don't see any personality cult. Maybe some discussion of a politically-motivated attack on a progressive politician, one who has spent decades working for the Irish working class and fighting sectarianism.
    Is that why the Irish establishment is supporting him? Because he spent decades fighting for the working class? Hmmmmmm ...

    Could you tell me if all these TDs and Senators are opposed to extradition to the USA in principle or just this one?
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    I hardly say that the establishment is opposing the extradition given what the wikileaks cable revealed about the attitude of the Dublin government. And that the hearing has unfortunately gone ahead.

    You'd have to ask the people concerned. I imagine that it's a mix of motives, with the absence of evidence and the humanitarian issues high on people's list of reasons.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    I hardly say that the establishment is opposing the extradition given what the wikileaks cable revealed about the attitude of the Dublin government. And that the hearing has unfortunately gone ahead.

    You'd have to ask the people concerned. I imagine that it's a mix of motives, with the absence of evidence and the humanitarian issues high on people's list of reasons.
    I would have considered all these dozens of politicians part of the Irish establishment. It surprises me that you do not.

    So you think they may have read the evidence and consider it not sufficient? Do they not have enough to do without doing the work of the courts?

    What about all the people done in the Special Criminal Court? Are they happy with the evidence there?
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  9. #39
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    I wouldn't consider them to be the establishment in toto, which you're first wording suggested to me. Elements of the establishment are opposing the extradition, and fair play to them for doing so, whatever the reasons.

    The campaign opposing the extradition has been doing a lot of work informing people as to the details of the case, so I am sure that those who have signed up have been well informed.

    As for those other cases, I've really no idea. Ask the people concerned. I have to say I don't think there is a direct connection.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    I hardly say that the establishment is opposing the extradition given what the wikileaks cable revealed about the attitude of the Dublin government. And that the hearing has unfortunately gone ahead.

    You'd have to ask the people concerned. I imagine that it's a mix of motives, with the absence of evidence and the humanitarian issues high on people's list of reasons.
    From what I ve read his defense is partly that it wasn't illegal to forge foreign currencies.
    No one should be extradited to the horrendous U S prison regime.
    And if he does have printing skills we might need him to produce our new currency.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    Elements of the establishment are opposing the extradition, and fair play to them for doing so, whatever the reasons.
    Services rendered I would suggest

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    The campaign opposing the extradition has been doing a lot of work informing people as to the details of the case, so I am sure that those who have signed up have been well informed.
    If these politicians are opposed to extradition to the US on principle and are working to have Ireland adopt that position then I say fair play to them and I would support it 100%. If they are just opposing the extradition of Garland then it is an entirely inappropriate position for them to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    As for those other cases, I've really no idea. Ask the people concerned. I have to say I don't think there is a direct connection.
    You do not think it matters if they present themselves as being opposed to injustice in the law with regard to this case of extradition to the USA but turn a blind to the injustices in the Irish "justice" system like the juryless special criminal court where you will be locked up on the word of a Garda? It is just rank hypocrisy.

    Of course you will not see a connection because it does not suit you to.
    Last edited by Sam Lord; 20-07-2011 at 01:01 AM.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Services rendered? Really? That's the best you can do. You don't think if that was the case then the case would never have got this far? Nonsense of the highest order. Laughable actually.

    As for the idea that it's inappropriate to oppose just one case of extradition, that's up to the individuals. I wouldn't think people should be extradited to the US myself.

    I don't see the connection because this is an attempt to link a load of stuff together in order to have a go at Garland and those opposed to his extradition, as well as the WP.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    Services rendered? Really? That's the best you can do. You don't think if that was the case then the case would never have got this far? Nonsense of the highest order. Laughable actually.
    Well, all I can say is that I know full well that if the USA was trying to extradite me, even on the flimsiest of evidence, and I went to these 60 politicians they would soon tell me to sling my hook. And if I said that the evidence was flimsy they would tell me that that was a matter for the courts. So they are taking this stand with regard to Garland, while ignoring all the injustices in the Irish system, for some reason .... and it certainly isn't because he is an outstanding fighter for the Irish working class as you would have us believe. These people don't care a hoot for the Irish working class ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    As for the idea that it's inappropriate to oppose just one case of extradition, that's up to the individuals.
    And it's being done because it is Garland and he has provided some service to British imperialism and its Irish lackeys .... not because of any principle or because they hate injustice. If anyone believes that these people hate injustice they would believe anything really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    I don't see the connection because this is an attempt to link a load of stuff together in order to have a go at Garland and those opposed to his extradition, as well as the WP.
    I knew you would not see any connection but as a hint let me give you a couple of words in common between how you view the Garland case and the cases that routinely go through the special criminal court. Law, injustice, politically motivated charges, lack of evidence.

    But of course all these hypocrites in the Dail and Senate who are wringing their hands over the treatment of poor Garland will have nothing to say about the people railroaded through the special crim.

    It is pretty contemptible all in all.
    Last edited by Sam Lord; 20-07-2011 at 04:05 AM.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    I never once suggested that these people were supporting Garland because he is a fighter for the working class. You have misread what I said.

    As for this service to British imperialism rubbish, it's exactly that, and I'm not even going to bother responding.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Seán Garland benefit.

    Is it the case as I suggested that his defense relies on the argument that forgery of foreign currency was not an offense in Ireland at the relevant time?

    On principle, I don't think any one should be extradited from Ireland to face political charges in a foreign state.

    Does the defence say that Garland was politically motivated?

    And, since it has been raised, does Garland oppose the Special Criminal Court and related law?

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