EU-IMF Programme Documents & Secret Side Letter on the Banks - Update: Lenihan's Letter of November 9th Released

[disability student]

The letters from Trichet were written in French as IT made no mention of it.

I don't trust Collin's story as it has the hallmarks of a whitewash. I rather see real evidence of these letters out in the open- print instead of seen these letters. Irish times paper have been long favored by successive govts as they were compromised by the govt.

Collin's article wasn't & isn't a full story as he was selective on what to write and what to omit & briefed by his editor etc. Take it as a pinch of salt as IT aren't to be trusted at all.

No mention of the bondholders, which would give credence that FG/FF/Lab had made their decision rather than the troika, on the payout of all bondholders -secured or otherwise.

It was curiously strange that they leaked it prior to payment of the bondholders today as it seems to be strategically planned?

[Dr. FIVE]

Gurdgiev on CNN shortly talking this

[C. Flower]

Gurdgiev on CNN shortly talking this

Did he have anything to add ?

I think our DS made a good point. There was no mention of a threat to Ireland if the bondholders weren't paid.

Was this not strongly suggested by the Government at the time, and the current Government ?

[DCon]

Trichet says do not publish Letters. Also says BIFFO and Lenny knew help was needed

Mr Trichet told CNN that the letters were "confidential at the moment they were sent". He added that Brian Cowen and Mr Lenihan knew they needed help before they sought a bailout in November 2010.

"I think that the overall sentiment of all the responsible persons in Ireland, those that were at the helm, was that they really were needing some help in terms of help of the IMF and other Europeans," Mr Trichet said in the interview which was aired yesterday.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...d-3220159.html

[Dr. FIVE]

Noel Whelan and Mammy there casually telling the JFK summer school they know about the "bullying" that went on prior to the bailout then they are prepared to let on at this juncture.

[Dr. FIVE]

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...cb-formal.html

[C. Flower]

Noel Whelan and Mammy there casually telling the JFK summer school they know about the "bullying" that went on prior to the bailout then they are prepared to let on at this juncture.

I find it hard to imagine what is so awful, that we don't already know ?

Did they threaten to kill shoot Mammy's cat ?

[C. Flower]

Trichet says do not publish Letters. Also says BIFFO and Lenny knew help was needed



http://www.independent.ie/business/i...d-3220159.html

Knew that help was needed, but did not want the banks tied in to the arrangement - pretty much as Spain does at the moment.

Historically, a lot of fudging had gone on around Irish banks - McCreery said they had often been allowed to operate insolvent in the past and in the 80s and early 90s borrowing for a house or business was not much easier than it is now - unless you were a crony or in public service. Lenihan probably still hoped that we could muddle along some how in the same way.

[Greengoddess]

Could we actually remember that, apart from the morality of the bullying, these people allowed themselves to be bullied?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Mammy and co will do the bullying line when in fact GG is right in saying that it is very hard to bully a cabinet minister unless they want to be bullied. This will be the 'blame deflection' policy from the Rourkes/Lenihans. Sir Dead should have been buried under a tax rebate form and not a Tricolour.

Then again the Irish cabinet minister has no experience of how to say 'no' to business interests. That is what has the state in the situation it is now- captured by corporations, an offshore tax haven and sight has been lost as in many another country that business interests should serve the nation's economy and not the other way around.

Politicians don't care about such things as long as they are being fed by the business interests involved- and they are now in Ireland as elsewhere entirely the captives of those offshore business interests.

They have become servants of the corporation rather than the nation- Facebook, Google, Pfizer, Diageo all have de facto 'first class citizenship' and a veto over regulation and policies in Ireland. If you don't believe me keep an eye on the next Company Law Act to reach the Oireachtas. It was actually written by lawyers for IBEC and the Institute of Directors.

Keep remembering on this subject a passage from Roy Jenkin's 'Churchill' in which he mentioned that Churchill as Home Office Minister in his first meeting after WW1 was 'confronted by businessmen who looked as if they had done well out of the war'.

I think that conveyed the attitude that was properly there towards the 'business interest'- at the time merchants were sent to the back door of middle class houses and certainly not allowed to ponce in and out of Downing Street like some kind of faux celebrities as they are these days.

There was a lot to be said for that old attitude.

[disability student]

Mammy and co will do the bullying line when in fact GG is right in saying that it is very hard to bully a cabinet minister unless they want to be bullied. This will be the 'blame deflection' policy from the Rourkes/Lenihans. Sir Dead should have been buried under a tax rebate form and not a Tricolour.

Then again the Irish cabinet minister has no experience of how to say 'no' to business interests. That is what has the state in the situation it is now- captured by corporations, an offshore tax haven and sight has been lost as in many another country that business interests should serve the nation's economy and not the other way around.

Politicians don't care about such things as long as they are being fed by the business interests involved- and they are now in Ireland as elsewhere entirely the captives of those offshore business interests.

They have become servants of the corporation rather than the nation- Facebook, Google, Pfizer, Diageo all have de facto 'first class citizenship' and a veto over regulation and policies in Ireland. If you don't believe me keep an eye on the next Company Law Act to reach the Oireachtas. It was actually written by lawyers for IBEC and the Institute of Directors.

Keep remembering on this subject a passage from Roy Jenkin's 'Churchill' in which he mentioned that Churchill as Home Office Minister in his first meeting after WW1 was 'confronted by businessmen who looked as if they had done well out of the war'.

I think that conveyed the attitude that was properly there towards the 'business interest'- at the time merchants were sent to the back door of middle class houses and certainly not allowed to ponce in and out of Downing Street like some kind of faux celebrities as they are these days.

There was a lot to be said for that old attitude.

Well said Cptn, MNC's and big business interests take precedence in Govt's eyes and tax take dictates it as well re Corporation taxes. Ire Inc wouldn't survive if most of it of all of it left to take advantage of another country's tax position.

The fear now is that MNC (Multi-national companies) and big business dictates our govt's foreign policy in order to appease them and dovetail their business interests.

Compnay Law review group here:http://www.clrg.org.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

On that subject DS, one tantalising thought that has been revolving around in my mind for some time is that just as with Regulatory Impact Assessments, a tool which is used by legislators increasingly to try to scope out proposals and their likely effect, there should be a system in Ireland and elsewhere where all costs and benefits of a company like Google, Facebook, Pfizer, and Kerry Foods- essentially anything big enough to be called 'systemic' in the Irish economy are listed and rolled forward in a single updateable economic footprint to show whether it is profitable or not to have these companies in the state.

The benefit of that is obvious- firstly we would get away from this nonsensical assumption that because we have a big brand company in the state it is automatically profitable for us. Let's call that the 'De Lorean Clause'

Secondly ministers should be able to face down local TDs banging on about wanting new infrastructure for an employer in their constituency by using that cost/benefit document- if the country is paying for an employer to employ people we should be able to have the figures to hand to fend off expensive 'porkbarrel' businesses in the national interest.

I have this horrible feeling that when you look at some foreign Multinationals in Ireland they are actually costing us money to have them in the state.

The benefits are supposedly (a) jobs (b) corporation tax (c) onward economic activity domestically and exports abroad.

If Irish taxpayers are effectively subsidising any of that for a major employer I'd want to know where the line is between national profit and national loss in kowtowing to them.

The point is at the moment that there is an assumed narrative around this kind of thing that MNCs take advantage of and I'd like to be able to point to any company of size in the state and say 'this is how much we can support this company before moving into a loss on it'.

[disability student]

Membership of the Company Law Review Group 2010/2012
Dr. Thomas B. Courtney (Chairman)
Arthur Cox
Paul Appleby
Director of Corporate Enforcement
Deirdre-Ann Barr
Matheson Ormsby Prentice
Jonathan Buttimore
Office of the Attorney General
Jim Byrne
Revenue Commissioners
Marie Daly
Irish Business & Employers’ Confederation (IBEC)
Helen Dixon
Registrar of Companies
Mary Doyle (replaced Mike Percival)
Irish Banking Federation (IBF)
Ian Drennan
Irish Auditing & Accounting Supervisory Authority (IAASA)
Paul Egan
Mason Hayes + Curran
Mark Fielding
Irish Small & Medium Enterprises Association Ltd (ISME)
Joseph Gavin
Central Bank
Michael Halpenny
Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU)
Tanya Holly
Department of Jobs, Enterprise & Innovation
William Johnston
Arthur Cox
Brian Kelliher
Irish Funds Industry Association
Aisling McArdle (replaced Mike Duignan)
Irish Stock Exchange
Ralph MacDarby
Institute of Directors
Vincent Madigan
Department of Jobs, Enterprise & Innovation
Kathryn Maybury
Small Firms Association
Declan Murphy
Bar Council of Ireland
Conall O’Halloran (alternate Aidan Lambe)
Consultative Committee of Accountancy Bodies – Ireland (CCAB-I)
Mark Pery-Knox-Gore
Law Society of Ireland
Nóra Rice
Companies Registration Office (CRO)
Jon Rock
Institute of Chartered Secretaries & Administrators (ICSA)
Noel Rubotham
Courts Service
Conor Verdon (appointed March 2012)

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I'd just like to apologise to SIPTU as I had previously claimed there was a SIPTU monkey in a fez playing piano and eating bananas while the above lot planned the next bit of Progressive Democrat style deregulation around Irish Company Law.

It was in fact not a SIPTU monkey in a fez but an ICTU monkey in a fez. Glad to be able to clear up who owned the cute little rubberstamper monkey in the room.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I hope nobody minds. It usually IS a SIPTU monkey playing the piano and I thought the ICTU had retired years ago. Last time I saw that rare breed was on a march in the 1980s.