Devolved power?

[Slim Buddha]

Well if you think local , you act national , is that not the expression! There is a lot to be said for the Swiss style canton system but the biggest barrier is going to be getting people to embrace change as people dont like change. Too often people are just apathetic. There is also nothign to stop us learning what is wrong with the Swiss system (if there is any issues) and building upon it to create a better model based on it.

Exactly, fluffy. Constructive criticism welcome always!

The Swiss go in for compulsory military service, which costs businesses a lot of money. We may choose not to do that but then again, in Switzerland, this is a natural extention to the thorough grounding in civics they get in school all the way up. The do get to learn about the rights the Swiss constitution bestows upon them but also a fundamental education in their responsibilities to society, to their community, to their canton and to the country . It works for them, The crass culture of extreme individualism in the so-called Tiger years is the exact opposite of the Swiss system.

[fluffybiscuits]

Exactly, fluffy. Constructive criticism welcome always!

The Swiss go in for compulsory military service, which costs businesses a lot of money. We may choose not to do that but then again, in Switzerland, this is a natural extention to the thorough grounding in civics they get in school all the way up. The do get to learn about the rights the Swiss constitution bestows upon them but also a fundamental education in their responsibilities to society, to their community, to their canton and to the country . It works for them, The crass culture of extreme individualism in the so-called Tiger years is the exact opposite of the Swiss system.

There is one issue, compulsory military service would in no way do a neutral country like us any good and there is also the gun training as well isnt there? That is about as useful here as a Swiss Navy The politicians would be kicking up about this canton system if it was introduced, it would mean that they would not be able to curry as much favour.

What are the rules on poltiical donations?

[Baron von Biffo]

the biggest barrier is going to be getting people to embrace change as people dont like change.

If you want people to embrace change you must persuade that the change is in their interests.

[Baron von Biffo]

Exactly, fluffy. Constructive criticism welcome always!

For 'constructive' read - No pointing at the naked emperor.

[Slim Buddha]

There is one issue, compulsory military service would in no way do a neutral country like us any good and there is also the gun training as well isnt there? That is about as useful here as a Swiss Navy The politicians would be kicking up about this canton system if it was introduced, it would mean that they would not be able to curry as much favour.

What are the rules on poltiical donations?

Switzerland is a neutral country,fluffy.
So neutral that it is only in the UN since 2002

[fluffybiscuits]

Switzerland is a neutral country,fluffy.
So neutral that it is only in the UN since 2002

But why conscription then?

[Slim Buddha]

But why conscription then?

Paranoia!

Switzerland was always surrounded by powerful neighbours and it had no language of its own. It was always afraid of it being carved up by Germany/Austria, France and Italy on language lines. Hence the need for a huge army. It lingers on, despite no threat to Swiss sovreignty for a long time.

[fluffybiscuits]

Paranoia!

Switzerland was always surrounded by powerful neighbours and it had no language of its own. It was always afraid of it being carved up by Germany/Austria, France and Italy on language lines. Hence the need for a huge army. It lingers on, despite no threat to Swiss sovreignty for a long time.

That now is some backwards thinking on behalf of the Swiss. With the world having involved somewhat beyond what it was do they not see the need scrapping conscrption?

[Slim Buddha]

That now is some backwards thinking on behalf of the Swiss. With the world having involved somewhat beyond what it was do they not see the need scrapping conscrption?

No they see it as part of good citizenship. Also when I first came here in 2005, I noticed that at the beginning of the third week of work many of my colleagues were absent. The had been bad floods in Berne and Lucerne. Since they were all "in the Army" as well as working in private industry, they were required to report for duty and act to evacuate old folks homes and so on. This was exactly the same time as Hurricane Katrina. Everything was achieved with calm competence and the effects of the floods were kapt to a minimum. My colleagues returned 3 days later, everything was cleared up.

I asked them about this. They said it is just something they do. They are brought up with this because there is a very strong understanding of responsibilities to ones community, ones canton and ones country. Being in the Army is one of them. It is a duty to the community.

[fluffybiscuits]

No they see it as part of good citizenship. Also when I first came here in 2005, I noticed that at the beginning of the third week of work many of my colleagues were absent. The had been bad floods in Berne and Lucerne. Since they were all "in the Army" as well as working in private industry, they were required to report for duty and act to evacuate old folks homes and so on. This was exactly the same time as Hurricane Katrina. Everything was achieved with calm competence and the effects of the floods were kapt to a minimum. My colleagues returned 3 days later, everything was cleared up.

I asked them about this. They said it is just something they do. They are brought up with this because there is a very strong understanding of responsibilities to ones community, ones canton and ones country. Being in the Army is one of them. It is a duty to the community.

Its the sense of community that benefitted them then so would a similar scheme work here? Introduce a transition year in school where teeangers are required to work in an old folks home or something to foster that sense of community. While an army like model wouldnt work here something akin to community service would , it would build some charachter and kill the indifference but only during school years. Make it part of their education

[Baron von Biffo]

No they see it as part of good citizenship. Also when I first came here in 2005, I noticed that at the beginning of the third week of work many of my colleagues were absent. The had been bad floods in Berne and Lucerne. Since they were all "in the Army" as well as working in private industry, they were required to report for duty and act to evacuate old folks homes and so on. This was exactly the same time as Hurricane Katrina. Everything was achieved with calm competence and the effects of the floods were kapt to a minimum. My colleagues returned 3 days later, everything was cleared up.

I asked them about this. They said it is just something they do. They are brought up with this because there is a very strong understanding of responsibilities to ones community, ones canton and ones country. Being in the Army is one of them. It is a duty to the community.

When we had a lot of snow here, businesses wouldn't even shake a bit of salt on the path outside their own doors. They sat back and whinged that the local authority didn't do it. This despite the fact that their representative organisations have been campaigning for reductions in Rates and cuts in the numbers of local authority staff.

If the Irish government tried to take staff away from businesses to do emergency public works you'd hear the wails of IBEC/ISME/SFA where you live.

[Slim Buddha]

Its the sense of community that benefitted them then so would a similar scheme work here? Introduce a transition year in school where teeangers are required to work in an old folks home or something to foster that sense of community. While an army like model wouldnt work here something akin to community service would , it would build some charachter and kill the indifference but only during school years. Make it part of their education

This happens in Germany too.Those who object to military service onconscience grounds,or who cannot perform their Bundeswehr service for some other reason can perform a "Zivildienst" working in the community in the manner you described.

A senior partner in a large legal practice in Zürich told me why he thinks military service in Switzerland is a good thing. He said that in his job, his qualifications and experience are what count in determining his position in the company he works for but in the military,the only thing that counts is the passport saying he is Swiss.They are all equal and he takes his orders from a train driver.

It reminds him that they are all sharing a responsibility to the"Eidgenossenschaft" or confederation. While rank is respected obviously and it is an army after all, the main over-riding principle is that this is a responsibility to the confederation that they must carry and perform. Some object to it but most don´t..

[Slim Buddha]

When we had a lot of snow here, businesses wouldn't even shake a bit of salt on the path outside their own doors. They sat back and whinged that the local authority didn't do it. This despite the fact that their representative organisations have been campaigning for reductions in Rates and cuts in the numbers of local authority staff.

If the Irish government tried to take staff away from businesses to do emergency public works you'd hear the wails of IBEC/ISME/SFA where you live.

Cleaning away the snow from the area in front of your house to the road is a legal requirement that applies to businesses too.

IBEC Is a boneheaded organisation who employed Harney´s husband in a senior position at one stage. A lot of IBEC thinking went into PD philosophy under Harney which in turn became PD policy. The PD economic policy was the one implemented by McCreevy between 1997 and 2004. Mc Creevy was a de facto PD and the media was a major cheerleader forthe policy, especially the Irish Times under the editorship of ex-PD TD Geraldine Kennedy.

Their toxic legacy lives on.

[ang]

When we had a lot of snow here, businesses wouldn't even shake a bit of salt on the path outside their own doors. They sat back and whinged that the local authority didn't do it. This despite the fact that their representative organisations have been campaigning for reductions in Rates and cuts in the numbers of local authority staff.

If the Irish government tried to take staff away from businesses to do emergency public works you'd hear the wails of IBEC/ISME/SFA where you live.

Again lumping everone under the same umbrella Baron. You may find your local barber, shoe shop etc. have absolutely no idea who people like IBEC/ISME/SFA even are as they are only representative of certain business sectors including builders, hotels etc etc. Even if your local shoe shop etc. did get some sort of urge to join they would probably run a mile on sight of the fees.

As for the snow there was so much controversy from John Gormley and local authorities as to whether you could or couldn't clear your entrance that people just couldn't decide what exactly was the right thing to do and contrary to what you might believe a lot of us small small small businesses were in absolute fear as to whether to brush/salt or not.

PLEASE do not keep lumping me in with the enemy

[fluffybiscuits]

This happens in Germany too.Those who object to military service onconscience grounds,or who cannot perform their Bundeswehr service for some other reason can perform a "Zivildienst" working in the community in the manner you described.

A senior partner in a large legal practice in Zürich told me why he thinks military service in Switzerland is a good thing. He said that in his job, his qualifications and experience are what count in determining his position in the company he works for but in the military,the only thing that counts is the passport saying he is Swiss.They are all equal and he takes his orders from a train driver.

It reminds him that they are all sharing a responsibility to the"Eidgenossenschaft" or confederation. While rank is respected obviously and it is an army after all, the main over-riding principle is that this is a responsibility to the confederation that they must carry and perform. Some object to it but most don´t..

Ah so I can see the importance now of it once you look at it from that angle. It more or less puts everyone on an equal footing. The way you described it, about the conceintous objector , they do work which fosters a sense of community. If you have system like the canton with the parts working individually it would be necessary to introduce something which fosters relations between the people in the canton. On the surface they can be Italian,Romanich,French or German speaking but at heart they would be Swiss?