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Thread: Scottish Independence?

  1. #571
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Like saying SP could go in with FG.
    Don't you remember DL?

    When it comes right down to it if FG/L somehow do quite well in the next GE and only need the SP/SWP votes to stay in power, SP/SWP would much rather do a deal with FG than SF. They're all unionists after all.

    In Scotland the grassroots campaign is still bubbling away, sites like Wings Over Scotland, WeeGingerDug etc are still hammering away and keeping the momentum going, the Radical Independence Campaign are still holding rallies attended by thousands, plans for new pro-Indy media outlets are advancing, and the knives are most definitely lurking in the long grass for Scottish Labour.

  2. #572
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    UKIP and the SNP are both nationalist parties.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  3. #573
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    UKIP and the SNP are both nationalist parties.
    So too is SF, but otherwise they have very little in common with UKIP.
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves "

  4. #574
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    UKIP and the SNP are both nationalist parties.
    This is anti-Republican hysteria right here.

    Centre left/borderline Nordic Nationally minded party compared with anti-immigrant anti-everything pro imperial party.

    Just another broad sweeping generalisation that we hear from people such as Karl Gill on SF, and anybody else of the left who isn't Karl Gill.

  5. #575
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Don't you remember DL?

    When it comes right down to it if FG/L somehow do quite well in the next GE and only need the SP/SWP votes to stay in power, SP/SWP would much rather do a deal with FG than SF. They're all unionists after all.

    In Scotland the grassroots campaign is still bubbling away, sites like Wings Over Scotland, WeeGingerDug etc are still hammering away and keeping the momentum going, the Radical Independence Campaign are still holding rallies attended by thousands, plans for new pro-Indy media outlets are advancing, and the knives are most definitely lurking in the long grass for Scottish Labour.
    You're right of course I put this to Karl Gill yesterday when he called SF bigots over abortion in the North. Mistaken and some double standards yes. Bigots no. Bigots burn Irish flags and pictures of Irish politicians. The anti SF hysteria of the left generally is disgusting at times.

    He then backtracked in the very same posts where he called them bigoted again by saying 'of course our main focus' is always the right.

    I don't think Joe Higgins party could credibly turn down SF but I think you are right maybe with some people in PBP. They might well abstain and allow FG et al in by default when it comes to appointing a govt. by not supporting SF et al.

    WP era was the biggest betrayal of Irish left campaigners in the history of the State and has left a permanent suspicion hanging over the socialists that they are ready to stab every other leftwing group, from unions to the Independent Left to Republicans, in the back when it comes down to it and it set us back 25 years! Adams in many ways relayed this suspicion in a recent speech by setting down a gauntelt to them to start working with SF on wider issues and not just on the Right 2 Water coalition, which while a step forward, is the only sign of co-operation among the left generally-though the debate in the media has been more co-operative from RBB Murphy Higgins etc. except where they felt forced into it or saw an opportunity to gain a seat-i.e. Maria Cahill statements and Murphy's skilled opportunism in the by-election.

    We can only hope the PBP's bluff is called when the numbers stack up so people know where they stand sooner rather than later.

    Of course that goes for SF and anybody else too.

    I think some of these Dublin socialists are not aware of the economic damage the border does. If they came from Drogheda, Donegal or Derry they might have a different view. People like the border SF and other leftist politicians, Thomas Pringle and to a lesser extent, Eamon McCann have highlighted this. The border damages these areas economically massively and people focused on some sort of socialist union refuse to tackle this for fear of being labeled 'nationalists' and losing credence in unionist parts of the North where they're beginning to stand and win votes as well as council seats.

    That fool of a woman Arlene Foster a few years back was asked 3 times on UTV when up against Doherty to name what the economic advantages of unionism were and she kept reverting to 'natural advantages of culture and opportunity' while naming nothing specific and failing to answer why the North's economy is still dependent on a British grant(cos of the power structure obviously).

    There would be no reason why the North could not keep Sterling as a regional currency if it joined the Republic, and they would get far more devolution to boot. The problem is a lot of people from DUP to PBP think in terms of anti-Nationalist hysteria rather than economics and co-operation.

    Fis Nua are a party open to regional devolution, currency reform, and sustainable State led economics but their views are hardly popular. Too complicated to actually think out an alternative for a lot of voters who prefer the tried and trusted or the biggest hellraiser.

    In fairness to socialists and the admin on here, they have criticised the left for not addressing the national economic picture as a whole.

    Scotland might get some new powers now to postpone independence another decade or so. The North should get the same powers to stop welfare cuts and lessen its' tax dependence on the Brits.
    Last edited by Apjp; 27-11-2014 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #576
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  7. #577
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    New head of the Labour Party in Scotland

    The opposition Labour party has elected former cabinet minister Jim Murphy as its new leader in Scotland, five months before a national election in which the party faces a tough battle to retain its Scottish seats.

    His public profile rose during the Scottish referendum campaign when he toured the streets of 100 Scottish towns, hosting debates standing on top of an upturned crate of Irn-Bru, the bright orange fizzy drink popularly referred to as “Scotland’s other national drink”.

    “I and the Scottish Labour Party share so much more in common with ... (the) values of those many hundreds of thousands who voted ‘yes’ in the referendum than we do with many of the political leaders who campaigned for ‘no’,” he said.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...medium=twitter
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  8. #578
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    New head of the Labour Party in Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Murphy
    “I and the Scottish Labour Party share so much more in common with ... (the) values of those many hundreds of thousands who voted ‘yes’ in the referendum than we do with many of the political leaders who campaigned for ‘no’,” he said.
    Does this clown actually understand that next year Scottish Labour will be heading into a FPTP election, with Lab, Tory and LibDem all fishing from the 55%, while moves are already afoot among the SNP/SSP/RIC/Greens etc to present a single pro-Indy candidate for each Westminster seat?

    Scottish Labour could end up getting wiped out if they insist on playing the Orange Card.

  9. #579
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    A post - election view from an American - in geo political terms he sees Scottish independence and Brexit as the end of the pretty defunct British Empire and of the UK as part of a Europe "prepared to defend itself"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/10/op...&WT.mc_c=&_r=0
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  10. #580
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    here we go again

    Scotland's First Minister is laying down plans for another referendum

    Yes folks as if one referendum wasn't enough we now have the prospect of another one to throw further uncertainty into the mix.

    She has today told the SNP's Glasgow conference that an Independence Referendum Bill would be published next week and that marks the first step to holding a second vote.

    The first referendum, which took place on 18 September, 2014, resulted in 55% of voters saying "no" to Scottish independence but the Brexit vote outcome showed a clear Remain preference for those north of the border with a 62/38 split.

    "I am determined that Scotland will have the ability to reconsider the question of independence and to do so before the UK leaves the EU - if that is necessary to protect our country's interests.

    "So, I can confirm today that the Independence Referendum Bill will be published for consultation next week."

    No great surprise here really given that on 24 June, the day after the UK voted to leave the EU, Sturgeon said a second independence referendum was "highly likely"

    http://news.forexlive.com/!/prepare-...rgeon-20161013
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  11. #581
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence?

    nobody could have seen this coming


    Not only was the Vow of increased powers for the Scottish Parliament, which turned the tide of the 2014 referendum on Independence, an abject lie; what the Supreme Court has affirmed is that the English Tories and Northern Irish unionists can strip powers from the Scottish Parliament at will.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...lonial-status/
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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