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Thread: Norris-"One Swiss (or is it Greek ?) bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    david norris is the only one i would have time for being honest,he just doesnt give a **** .. up norris

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    No, and I don't really like referring to them as 'Swiss bankers' or 'Irish bankers''. They are criminal elements with no allegiance to any nation state. They've been operating from Switzerland because Swiss legislation and regulation (or the lack thereof) invited them.

    And don't think for one minute, these people picked Dublin to set up their money laundering scheme because of the weather.
    There's a real attempt now to whip up anti-German feeling - David McWilliams is at it today in his latest blog. "It's not capitalism, it's the krauts". Dangerous nonsense.

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    There's a real attempt now to whip up anti-German feeling - David McWilliams is at it today in his latest blog. "It's not capitalism, it's the krauts". Dangerous nonsense.
    C I didnt find your quote but he does say this which is not as rabid
    Let that sink in for a minute. This is not capitalism, it is not European diplomacy; it is a stitch-up. http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...m-2442878.html

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Here is a profile of the individual who would not let Senator Norris list the bondholders in Seanad Eireann.

    http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/patrick-moylan

    From the Sindo

    "The Cathaoirleach refused to allow it on the grounds that it wasn't of national importance.

    "Now that is so absurd that it underlines the irrelevance of the Oireachtas; that business is being done over our heads by people who are not well disposed towards Ireland. It is absolutely disgraceful in my opinion," Mr Norris said."

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    More from Senator Norris yesterday -

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/...2/07/00004.asp


    Senator David Norris: With regard to the bank guarantee, I share my colleagues’ concern. I voted against the guarantee. I also asked several pertinent questions. I asked about the exact amount of the guarantee, which was some €440 billion. Then I asked the Minister and his advisers our gross national product for the previous year. They did not know and had to go out and make a telephone call. Is that not extraordinary? When they came back, it turned out that our gross national product for that year was less than half what we were to guarantee. It was quite extraordinary and one of the principal reasons I voted against it. I am concerned that, not only in this Parliament but across Europe, politicians are playing their own narrow sectional, national and partisan games. There is no doubt the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, is making a mistake when she sets her face against the development of euro bonds. This is the weapon about which I was talking last week that might help to rescue the situation and she opposes it for perfectly sound national electoral reasons. If the euro is to survive, there is an inevitability that centrifugal forces will drive it towards such centralisation. If it does not, the euro will fracture.
    <A name=N44>I believe we are entitled to know various matters about the bank guarantee. Recently I tried to put some bondholders’ names on the record but the Cathaoirleach stopped me. I will now try to do so again and, subsequently, will be looking for the Cathaoirleach to explain why he stopped me. Will the Leader confirm that one of the bondholders is Goldman Sachs? This company has been described as a vampire squid on the face of the public purse and we are entitled to know if it is one of the bondholders. Money has been taken from the people referred to by Senator MacSharry who have had to switch off their electricity supply and live in squalor, fear and the cold to pay these big financial institutions which have gambled. It is wrong, unethical and unjust. We need to know to whom we are giving the money

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Here's the Sindo piece, that's fightin talk!

    My view always was: 'You want to put it up to us? We'll pull the plug. We'll bring the whole bloody thing [the EU] down, unless you give us this money to pay yourselves at zero interest or one per cent.'
    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-2448840.html

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Quote Originally Posted by bokonon View Post
    Here's the Sindo piece, that's fightin talk!

    Is this the Fawkes list, that we posted here a few weeks back, or something new?

    Addressing the Seanad, the independent senator read the names of Aberdeen Asset Management (London Ltd), AGICAM, Aktia Asset Management, Aletti Gestielle SGR and Alliance Bernstein (UK) Ltd, on to the record before being ruled out of order by Cathaoirleach Pat Moylan.
    The five institutions are included on a list 80 international firms drawn from countries including Germany, France, Italy and the UK, which, Mr Norris says, are the bondholders of the State-owned Anglo Irish Bank.
    All of Anglo's senior debt will have to be repaid by the taxpayer as a result of its inclusion by the Government in the bank guarantee scheme.
    A copy of the list has since been forwarded to all members of the Dail and Seanad, and is now being circulated on the internet.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    David Norris really deserves support and encouragement to keep going on the issue of the banks. I think it's very disturbing how few politicians have done anything about it. If you look at the Whistleblower, he/she had to push the Opposition for months/weeks before Joan Burton asked Lenihan a question on his case.

    I'm going to email him to thank him for his efforts and ask him to keep going.


    His email address is:
    [email protected]


    If he wants to boost his Presidential campaign, so far as the public is concerned, exposing who has benefitted from the banking bailouts, and why, would imo give him a massive boost.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-2448840.html

    The five institutions are included on a list 80 international firms drawn from countries including Germany, France, Italy and the UK, which, Mr Norris says, are the bondholders of the State-owned Anglo Irish Bank.
    All of Anglo's senior debt will have to be repaid by the taxpayer as a result of its inclusion by the Government in the bank guarantee scheme.
    A copy of the list has since been forwarded to all members of the Dail and Seanad, and is now being circulated on the internet.
    The outspoken politician stressed that he had checked the names on the list with a number of sources before referring to them in the Seanad.
    He said was satisfied that the document was authentic.
    The Cathaoirleach refused to allow it on the grounds that it wasn't of national importance.
    "Now that is so absurd that it underlines the irrelevance of the Oireachtas; that business is being done over our heads by people who are not well disposed towards Ireland. It is absolutely disgraceful in my opinion," Mr Norris said.
    "What I was doing in trying to put the list out is to show that they are German, French, Italian and British banks. So naturally they [the EU and IMF] are going to lend us money, so we can pay them. They're going to screw us by extracting the money from the people."
    Mr Norris was scathing in his remarks on the €85bn deal the Government struck last week with the EU and IMF.
    On this, he said: "These people in the ECB and in Europe know it's wrong. Angela Merkel knows it's wrong. But they're only going to change the rules when they have screwed us.
    "Nobody else will get screwed because nobody else will put up with it. My view always was: 'You want to put it up to us? We'll pull the plug. We'll bring the whole bloody thing [the EU] down, unless you give us this money to pay yourselves at zero interest or one per cent.' Six per cent is ridiculous. I mean, not only are they treating us like a money-laundering outfit for people who at the very least are stupid and greedy, ordinary Irish people, who haven't done anything wrong, will have to pay for it."

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Is this the Fawkes list, that we posted here a few weeks back, or something new?
    I emailed and asked him that but he never said... the few he managed to read were the same as the first few from Fawkes's list though, so I guess it was the same list.

    I'm going to contact Norris and encourage him to continue as well. I'm a single-issue voter on the presidential and the general elections: as far as I'm concerned it's all about the catastrophe that has been allowed to happen here.

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    More likely a Greek shipping heir using a Swiss-domiciled financial vehicle.
    Comments on (Golem's) blog sheds some light on this.

    http://golemxiv-credo.blogspot.com/2...iling-out.html

    If you want a small piece of evidence to show this without having to look too far, the article provides it itself. The son of a Greek shipping magnate owns (among other things) 40% of a private banking group which manages €7.5 trillion in assets. By the crude rationale of this article his investment in this group alone should be worth €3 trillion yet his personal fortune (which doesn’t only consist of this asset and isn’t wholly made up of it) is only €9 billion. (“Only”, poor lad!!!).
    So, it was a misunderstanding, and he doesn't own 40% of bondholdings. But he is quite interesting for other reasons.


    neil craig said...
    I looked up Mr Spiro Latsis online, purely because he is the first you mentioned.

    "He is a longstanding friend of the President of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso , whom he invited on a trip on his luxury yacht. In 2005 this incident made Spiro the centre of a corruption scandal involving Barroso. The British MEP Nigel Farage requested that the European Commission disclose where the individual Commissioners had spent their holidays. The Commission did not provide the information requested, on the basis that the Commissioners had a right of privacy. The German newspaper Die Welt reported that the President of the European Commission, José Barroso had spent a week on the yacht of Spiro Latsis. It emerged soon afterwards that this had occurred only a month before the Commission approved 10.3 million euro of Greek state aid for Latsis' shipping company."

    17 November 2010 17:17

    http://spirolatsis.crazybillionaire.org/spirolatsis.php
    Spiro Latsis is not short of a bob or two. He is not a credit union, or a pensioner at risk of not being able to pay his electricity bill. He may be far more typical of the bondholders for whom our children will go hungry.


    crazybillionaire.org

    Spiro Latsis and family 60 years old was born in Greece. Now Spiro Latsis and family is live in Switzerland

    Spiro Latsis and family has amassed an enormous fortune from inherited. With an estimated current net worth of around $11.0 billion, he is ranked by Forbes (2007) as the 56th-richest person in world.
    The family's largest holding is its EFG Bank Group, a large banking conglomerate with private banking operations in Monaco, the United Kingdom and Switzerland. The group's subsidiaries include the publicly traded EFG Eurobank Ergasias. Merged with the Sandoz family's Banque Edouard Constant last year, becoming the majority shareholder. Sold its oil refining concern for a stake in Hellenic Petroleum, a large European oil refining and distribution outfit.

    Friend of EU commission president Barroso, whom he invited on a 25,000€ trip on his luxury yacht. His bank enjoyed a lucrative contract with the EU commission


    Spiro Latsis is a Greek businessman and one of the world's richest people, in 2006 ranked 51st by Forbes on the World's Billionaires list at US$9.1 billion . He is the son of the Greek shipping magnate, John Latsis , who died in 2003.
    The family's largest holding is its EFG Bank European Financial Group , a large banking conglomerate with private banking operations in many jurisdictions.
    Spiro Latsis graduated with a PhD in philosophy from the London School of Economics , an education that many regard as instrumental to his financial success, although his inheritance from his father is the primary source. The Latsis family fortune which is managed by Spiro, includes more than 40% in EFG Eurobank Ergasias, the Greek arm of his Swiss EFG Group and more than 30% in Hellenic Petroleum, the major petroleum player in the Balkans, through his ownership of Paneuropean Oil and Industrial Holdings S.A. Latsis group also controls PrivatAir, a large private jet owner and operator and Lamda Development, a major real estate group based in Athens. Lamda Development projects include "The Mall" complex in Athens, which opened in 2005.

    One of the few academics on this list, Latsis has a PhD from the London School of Economics and his knowledge of economic theory and behaviour is widely respected. He appears here by virtue of both birth and ability. His father, John Latsis, was a Greek shipping tycoon who lived for many years in London in a vast house next to St James's Palace until his death last April. Spiro, 57, spends most of his time in London, although he often visits Geneva to keep an eye on his family's extensive banking interests. Its biggest holding is in EFG Bank Group, a private bank that operates in London, Geneva and Monaco and merged with a Spanish bank last year. The Latsis Group, the main family business, recently took a stake worth over L300m in the Greek oil refiner Hellenic Petroleum. With extensive other assets including ships and a large property portfolio, Latsis and his family are valued by Forbes magazine at L2.4 billion. We are more cautious and settle for L2.1 billion.
    He is a longstanding friend of the President of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso , whom he invited on a trip on his luxury yacht. In 2005 this incident made Spiro the centre of a corruption scandal involving Barroso. The British MEP Nigel Farage requested that the European Commission disclose where the individual Commissioners had spent their holidays. The Commission did not provide the information requested, on the basis that the Commissioners had a right of privacy. The German newspaper Die Welt reported that the President of the European Commission, José Barroso had spent a week on the yacht of Spiro Latsis. It emerged soon afterwards that this had occurred only a month before the Commission approved 10.3 million euro of Greek state aid for Latsis' shipping company.In 2006 Mr. Latsis received an honorary doctorate from Witten/Herdecke University in Witten , Germany.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    So this guy is a Greek who spends most of his time in London, occasionally visiting Switzerland to check up on business interests in Geneva. Is the thread title therefore somewhat misleading?

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    So this guy is a Greek who spends most of his time in London, occasionally visiting Switzerland to check up on business interests in Geneva. Is the thread title therefore somewhat misleading?
    Any particular Swiss focus here is misplaced in my opinion. By all means we can discuss Swiss banking, but it's not the issue on this thread. It seems that Latsis has very substantial interests in a Swiss Bank but also a Spanish one and is one of the world's wealthiest individuals.
    Swiss banking to my (not very well informed) mind is one node in a chain of interlinked banking locations, of different characters, through which international capital and other assets flow. Cyprus, Bermuda, the IFSC, the Isle of Man, the Caymans, are all I assume less regulated. But the point to me is that he is a very, very wealthy man, and we are bailing him out.

    Another point is that the Irish crisis is also an international crisis. Lenihan's idea that Ireland is a financial island, and that capital flows are impeded, is for the birds.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 10-12-2010 at 01:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Senator David Norris said in his Seanad statement on the budget-

    Senator David Norris: It is difficult to know what to say on an occasion such this. I was in the Visitors Gallery of the Dáil yesterday, as were many of my colleagues, listening and witnessing what happened as the budget was presented by a man with whom I have a professional friendship and whom I respect and like, Deputy Brian Lenihan. ...In the Minister’s opening statement, he said this had been a traumatic and worrying time for the citizens of the country. That is the understatement of the year. I would say apocalyptic on a biblical scale. Later that evening, when I heard the Bank of Ireland ATMs were vomiting money onto the snow, I decided to pack my bags and get off home before it started raining blood and I was attacked by an army of frogs on O’Connell Street. We had the locusts in last week and we fed them our elderly, our infirm and our weak. They gobbled them up greedily and now they are back for more. We are still supine because this country and its workers have been sold into slavery.

    ....

    The Minister’s speech in the Dail yesterday was full of logical jumps, gaps, inconsistencies and points that are difficult to believe. He stated: “For the period out to 2014, real GDP is forecast by my Department to increase by an average of almost 2.75% per annum”. Does anyone believe any of the figures that come out of the Department of Finance? They have been wrong for so long. I remember saying long before this crisis that the Department of Finance rarely got any of its figures or forecasts right. My attention was drawn to this by the late Mr. Ken Monaghan, a nephew of James Joyce and a banker. Over coffee, he and I used to discuss the production of these figures. We tallied how disastrously wrong they inevitably were.

    The Minister asked the following question:

    So if the real economy is poised to grow, why do we need the help of the IMF and the EU? The answer is that we need their support to break the vicious cycle that has . threatened our national finances and our banking system.

    No, not at all. The answer is that he was so ineffably stupid as to give the banks a blanket guarantee. This was the astonishing and catastrophic mistake. Everything else could be dealt with, although with difficulty and hardship for all of us, which one would hope would be spread equally.
    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/...2/08/00005.asp

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    There are a plethora of posts about Switzerland, here and on another thread. They are derailing to the main thread topics, but a valid area for discussion. I'm going to separate them off into a Swiss thread, behind a high range of mountains... no just a normal thread.

    I have moved some posts into the Swiss thread and will post a link to them shortly.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 10-12-2010 at 09:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Norris-"One Swiss bondholder holds 40%- will get millions from us"

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    Supposing Anglo-Irish have been trading derivatives through the IFSC and not hedged it properly.... it could explain why that bank has been draining up to 50billion out of the Irish economy in an effort to stave off the auditors.

    That is speculation on my part but I don't like the look of the way public money has been slipped constantly to that bank by a panicky Finance Minister.
    Not only Anglo Irish, it seems.

    http://www.politicalworld.org/showpo...45&postcount=6

    There is another post here about the derivatives - I'll see if I can find it. Here we go -

    Good Indymedia page with a note on the Anglo derivatives -

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/98259

    Anglo Interim Report for 2010
    by T Sun Nov 28, 2010 22:55 In the Anglo Irish Bank interim report on page 46 section 16, titled 'Derivative Financial Instruments' you will see in the table that Anglo had a derivatives instruments on their books and they come to a notional value of €167 in 2009 and €184 billion in 2010 which shows that they were still ramping up these reckless instruments to the value of €17 billion in just one year whilst they were in the midst of the crisis.

    The official story so far seems to be that the ECB had been keeping the Irish banks solvent since Sept of this year as speculated by Prof. Morgan Kelly, and stepped in to call a halt to this because there was no end in sight. But now it turns out that they have stepped into to try and deal with these derviatives and goes so way to explaining why all 27 members of the ECB rushed off to the meeting today in Europe.
    Anglo Irish Bank Interim Report for 2010. See table on page 46. Sec 16. 1.32 Mb
    Anyone got any comments on this ?

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