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Thread: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by bormotello View Post
    plus more jobs, which left wing populist cannot offer
    another difference is that hard workers will be better with right wing policies, more harder you work, more money you will bring home, while under rule of left wingers it will be champaign socialists, who will equalize everybody, except public servants, through progressive taxation
    jobs in IBM, Ebay, Paypal and other MNC's in D15 are result of right wing policies, all achievements of left wingers were only council estates
    "Gain wealth forgetting all but self".

    It's so anti-social. I don't believe many people really are ready to further dismantle whatever social cohesion we do have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Griska View Post
    I doubt you believe this nonsense and are just looking for an argument.
    If this is a true reflection of what you believe however, it shows a wonderful level of ignorance.
    Hah! Yeah I wasn't going to bite but obnoxious right whinge shoutin-the-odds sometimes gets me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    According to the OECD data, a single person claiming social welfare in Ireland received payments that were 29 percent below the average of other EU-15 countries. ”Even poorer countries such as Portugal and Spain, make higher payments” Also, payments to the “single unemployed makes up only 34 percent of net take-home pay, again the 3rd worst in the EU-15 tables.”

    In the case of payments to a married couple with two children Irish recipients fairs better, appearing slightly above average, at mid-table. Unfortunately: “we don’t manage to pay the average replacement rate as pertains in the other countries. An Irish couple with two children will only receive 52 percent of their net take-home pay. In other EU-15 countries the average is 59 percent.”

    When Power Purchasing Parities (PPP), which are used to even out living standards in the countries being compared, the ranking changes: for a single person, to 38 percent below the average, while for a married couple with two children earning the average industrial wage the level of social welfare payments “falls below the average in the other EU-15 countries”.

    Link

    Good point there. A lot of the other EU societies have a social welfare model where you get about 80% of your income when you lose your job. Here instead we throw people on the bread line.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by bormotello View Post
    Don’t worry
    I didn’t expect any answer, because it will require some thinking outside of left wing clichés
    We're getting plenty of right-wing clichés in the form of "consensus" both from people like you and in the media. All people in reciept of welfare are frauds or cheats of lazy. State has been propping up people for far too long. Young women with lower socio-economic status have dozens of kids to fleece the prudent middle class tax payer.

    So far so Thatcher really.

    Quote Originally Posted by bormotello View Post
    Left wing = laziness and Speaking of clichés as result of laziness to think
    This is why rusty failed Marxism is still bible for left wingers
    Right wing = greed.
    This is why rusty failed Milton Friedmanism is still a bible for right wingers.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Design for Life View Post
    Right wing = greed.
    Agree
    Rigth wing is greed(sometimes creative), while left wing is only about laziness and envy

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Left Wing is about social cohesion and organised democratic equality

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Design for Life View Post
    Left Wing is about social cohesion and organised democratic equality
    it is only glance label to hide truth
    like right wing about prosperity and rewarding creative people

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Are labels meaningful in Irish politics? Or should I say, the practice of Irish politics? Fianna Fail - what is it? Left wing, scream the right-wingers who rightly point to significantly increased welfare benefits to the point where living on welfare has become a lifestyle choice for some. Clearly Right-wing, scream the left-wingers, rightly pointing to FF allowing the PDs dictate economic policy from 1997-2004 and their allowing the most toxic PD stay on in Health to create a "market" in the health service.

    Funnily enough, FF, a party without any ideology at all, emerged as the largest party in the Dail after the 2007 election. Go figure as they say.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by bormotello View Post
    it is only glance label to hide truth
    like right wing about prosperity and rewarding creative people
    Left and right wing are about class interests - the interests of the working classes/ salaried people as against the interests of people who live off their wealth.

    As one class is much bigger than the other, it offers a politics of economic and social equality. The right is all about freedom to keep things the way that suits them - right of minority to expropriate from the majority.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Left and right wing are about class interests - the interests of the working classes/ salaried people as against the interests of people who live off their wealth.
    it is too simplistic and bit old
    Right wing is mostly about right of creative people earn as much as they want and have fair competition where the strongest will win without excessive regulation. i.e. some kind of economical Darwinism.

    Left wing is mostly about people with mentality of slaves, incapable to introduce something new and able to make very simple work consisting of well defining tasks, but demanding the same quality of life as more creative members of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    As one class is much bigger than the other, it offers a politics of economic and social equality. The right is all about freedom to keep things the way that suits them - right of minority to expropriate from the majority.
    Do you mean that democracy for left wingers is only cover for dictatorship of passive majority to expropriate wealth created by more successive members of society
    This is probably why socialism cannot exist barber wire and land-mine fields on borders - in order to prevent successful member of society leave their own country and achieve what they deserve in other places

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Interesting post, bormotello. I am a passionate believer in competition and market-driven economics because I believe in work. I believe in a reward for work. I believe in a reward for ingenuity in work and rewarding those who create wealth and the opportunity for others to create wealth.

    I also believe in society. I believe that all citizens have rights but also responsibilities to society. I believe in sufficient regulation but no more than that. I believe it must be enforced. I believe that social welfare is necessary. i believe in society's obligation to defend its weakest members.

    I believe in devolving power to the lowest possible centre of gravity. I am against centralising power in strong central governments as much as I am against corporations using their power to destroy workers rights. I am against trade unions getting involved in politcs on a formal basis.

    I believe in internal taxation competition because it works. I believe in anything that rewards work over welfare. I am a believer in voluntary work. I am a believer in the teaching of civics in primary schools.

    And I could go on with this, bormotello, but you tell me, am I left wing or right wing? Because I don't know. I live in Switzerland and my belief system fits in well here and I find that this is the type of society that I like. Of course, it is not perfect, but better than what else is on offer from what I can see.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    Interesting post, bormotello. I am a passionate believer in competition and market-driven economics because I believe in work. I believe in a reward for work. I believe in a reward for ingenuity in work and rewarding those who create wealth and the opportunity for others to create wealth.

    I also believe in society. I believe that all citizens have rights but also responsibilities to society. I believe in sufficient regulation but no more than that. I believe it must be enforced. I believe that social welfare is necessary. i believe in society's obligation to defend its weakest members.

    I believe in devolving power to the lowest possible centre of gravity. I am against centralising power in strong central governments as much as I am against corporations using their power to destroy workers rights. I am against trade unions getting involved in politcs on a formal basis.

    I believe in internal taxation competition because it works. I believe in anything that rewards work over welfare. I am a believer in voluntary work. I am a believer in the teaching of civics in primary schools.

    And I could go on with this, bormotello, but you tell me, am I left wing or right wing? Because I don't know.


    I live in Switzerland and my belief system fits in well here and I find that this is the type of society that I like. Of course, it is not perfect, but better than what else is on offer from what I can see.
    if you leave in country where not much welfare fraudsters, incompetent public servants, lazy TU members, greedy entrepreneurs, who has imagination only for making huge profits on reselling Chinese goods, property speculators with their unleashed greed, covered by left wing rhetoric - then you don't need go to extremes and think are you right or left
    i.e if you healthy, you don't need to think which antibiotic to take

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by bormotello View Post
    if you leave in country where not much welfare fraudsters, incompetent public servants, lazy TU members, greedy entrepreneurs, who has imagination only for making huge profits on reselling Chinese goods, property speculators with their unleashed greed, covered by left wing rhetoric - then you don't need go to extremes and think are you right or left
    i.e if you healthy, you don't need to think which antibiotic to take
    That pretty much sums up this place, bormotello. It can be boring for some. All that conformity and consensus but it has its advantages. The biggest of all being, it works.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by bormotello View Post
    it is only glance label to hide truth
    like right wing about prosperity and rewarding creative people


    Do you assume that adopting a left-wing approach somehow impinges on creativity?

    Allowing people the freedom to be creative must be a fundamental to human existence. At present the most anti-social and selfish people "gain wealth forgetting all but self".


    What prosperity are you talking about? If you're one of these high falutin' entrepreneurs zipping up the M1 in your MG I doubt you'd be posting on a small internet forum. About half of all earners in the country are on something in the region of 33grand or less.

    Not every person judges their success by the size of their wallet. In fact the majority are normal people working normal jobs who would view success as being able to have a family with security.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    Are labels meaningful in Irish politics? Or should I say, the practice of Irish politics? Fianna Fail - what is it? Left wing, scream the right-wingers who rightly point to significantly increased welfare benefits to the point where living on welfare has become a lifestyle choice for some. Clearly Right-wing, scream the left-wingers, rightly pointing to FF allowing the PDs dictate economic policy from 1997-2004 and their allowing the most toxic PD stay on in Health to create a "market" in the health service.

    Funnily enough, FF, a party without any ideology at all, emerged as the largest party in the Dail after the 2007 election. Go figure as they say.
    Thatcher was pedaling similar rhetoric in the 80s.

    Other EU countries give you 80% of your income when you lose your job. Other countries also don't leave you in poverty if you work instead healthcare is provided on the basis at which you need it.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Left and right wing are about class interests - the interests of the working classes/ salaried people as against the interests of people who live off their wealth.
    .


    You're right there actually. It's not just left politics that is concerned with class. The gung-ho of pro-business right wing is fully aware that 6billion people can't all live in prosperity and not everyone can have gold plated toilets. There will be a lot of losers by way of shifting goal posts and crooked playing fields - those who wield power very easily rig the game. It seems superfluous that examples need to be mentioned but from the property bubble to the beef scandal and every other cosey relationship business establishment has had with politics the game is clearly anything other than fair.

    Business groups like IBEC are the real marxists concerned with the growing masses. It may be with the values inverted but they're essentially winning. Anti-union vibes are all round, workers aren't organised and so on.

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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Design for Life View Post
    Thatcher was pedaling similar rhetoric in the 80s.

    Other EU countries give you 80% of your income when you lose your job. Other countries also don't leave you in poverty if you work instead healthcare is provided on the basis at which you need it.
    I don't have objection against that system, but it must gradually decrease if person is not willing to take job
    Not job he wants, but any available job
    Otherwise it will become lifetime pension

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    Default Re: Leo Varadkar interview with IT: right wing policies from an ideological base and proud of it

    Quote Originally Posted by whydontwe View Post
    If the social outcome of these Patricians coming to Ireland is a retention of the subjection of the poorest/unconnected...then roll-on a revolution...and quickly!!
    Game Over Kenny in Clowen out no change except a skinny moron for a fat moron.
    TG I already stated I will not vote.

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