View Poll Results: Does the Greek Bailout Mean an End to the Federal Model of the EU ?

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  • Yes

    98 72.06%
  • No

    29 21.32%
  • It will have no long term effect

    9 6.62%
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Thread: Domino Effect at Work with Euro - Last Days of the Eurozone ? - UPDATE: S & P put EU on Negative Watch

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    Just spotted Barrosso response to Angela. They certainly don't seem to be in agreement.


    http://www.france24.com/en/20100319-...ce-merkel-debt
    There are several things worth remembering about Germany

    - it's not that long since re-unification, which was not that popular in what used to be West Germany, and which helped to depress wage levels.

    - Germany has just been through ten tough years of sever wage restraint to deal with unemployment - living standards sank but companies and employment levels eventually recovered, after a lot of pain taken by the electorate.

    - there is still a folk memory of hyper inflation (taking your wages home in a wheelbarrow levels) with the wipe out of the middle class and the rise of facism.

    - Germany, as the EUs biggest economy, made it a linch pin of EU membership that they would not have to bail anyone out. However, they did expect full access to all EU markets. They have paid much bigger transfers into the EU than other countries to balance that.

    Merkel presumable things that giving German tax payers money to the "feckless" Greeks may be more than here political life is worth.

    Sarkhozy sees it differently and is mainly focused on extending French influence.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra Syndrome View Post
    I have nothing but contempt for that Neo Liberal Milton Friedman but he was spot on when he said that the Euro would not survive its first crisis.
    The euro will survive, it is just a question of who will be in it.
    The time for pretending we can all have separate budgets and taxes in one currency is over.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

  3. #18

    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    Just spotted Barrosso response to Angela. They certainly don't seem to be in agreement.



    http://www.france24.com/en/20100319-...ce-merkel-debt
    I would agree with Barrosso I think. Unions aren't built to be destroyed at the first sign of trouble.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    BERLIN (Reuters) - The president of the European Commission challenged German Chancellor Angela Merkel to rise above domestic politics and agree on a financial safety net for debt-stricken Greece to help preserve European monetary union.
    Barroso seems to be fearful for the euro. Angela does not seem to be so worried. I think as CF has pointed out earlier in the thread, Germany have themselves been prudent in their efforts to keep their economy thriving, it must be very hard to expect your citizens to bailout a seemingly spendthrift economy with the hard earned savings of the German electorate.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE62K0C920100322

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    Barroso seems to be fearful for the euro. Angela does not seem to be so worried. I think as CF has pointed out earlier in the thread, Germany have themselves been prudent in their efforts to keep their economy thriving, it must be very hard to expect your citizens to bailout a seemingly spendthrift economy with the hard earned savings of the German electorate.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE62K0C920100322
    This is one of the best things I've read on the Strains in the Eurozone.

    Amongst other things, there is a comment on the debt that Germany owes Greece for war damages.
    Yes - WW1 is rearing its head again.



    http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2010/02/mauldin.html

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Very good article CF and will read it again later to digest it properly.

    Just thought I would put up the latest on Greece from RTE. If these figures are correct, then it would seem Greece are off to a good start in getting their house in order.

    Greece's budget deficit in the first two months of this year plunged more than 77%, the finance ministry said today, as the debt-strapped country tries to put its public finances in order.

    Government receipts rose 13.2% to €8.75 billion while spending was cut 9.6% to €8.99 billion, leaving a public deficit of €904m compared with a €3.99 billion shortfall the same time last year.
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0322/greece.html

  7. #22

    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    This is one of the best things I've read on the Strains in the Eurozone.

    Amongst other things, there is a comment on the debt that Germany owes Greece for war damages.
    Yes - WW1 is rearing its head again.



    http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2010/02/mauldin.html
    Wow, Greece are pulling out all the stops.

    Greece and Germany are not happy playmates right now. For what it's worth I strongly disagree with the way the Germans have handled the Greek crisis but Greece would be wise not to actively stir up hostility between the countries. The trouble is that if this escalates and the countries entrench themselves in mutually irreconcilable positions, the rest of the Eurozone may be forced to pick a side, and it won't be Greece's.

  8. #23

    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    Very good article CF and will read it again later to digest it properly.

    Just thought I would put up the latest on Greece from RTE. If these figures are correct, then it would seem Greece are off to a good start in getting their house in order.



    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0322/greece.html
    77%?! Surely that's not total deficit? Could it be deficit growth year-on-year?

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by evercloserunion View Post
    77%?! Surely that's not total deficit? Could it be deficit growth year-on-year?

    Government receipts rose 13.2% to €8.75 billion while spending was cut 9.6% to €8.99 billion, leaving a public deficit of €904m compared with a €3.99 billion shortfall the same time last year.
    Deficit this year 77% lower than it was for the same time last year.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by evercloserunion View Post
    77%?! Surely that's not total deficit? Could it be deficit growth year-on-year?
    They say that the Greek deficit fell 77% in two months. A lot of it was by cutting capital expenditure and they also increased corporate and other taxes.

    It's a good article. It conveys how fractious things have become, with Germany increasingly out on its own. The German voters won't back a bail out.


    Greek deputy prime minister Theodoros Pangalos went further - accusing German banks of betting on rising Greek bond yields and cheaper exports for its industry.
    'In speculating against the bonds of your partner and friend, and in allowing monetary and credit institutions to take part in this miserable game, people in Germany are making money,' Pangalos said.
    'While the countries of southern Europe suffer from the fall of the euro, German exports gain from its weakness,' he added.
    Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso told a German newspaper that there needed to be a decision on the Greek crisis at the summit later this week. His comments came as a new poll showed 61% of Germans opposed to a Greek bail-out and 40% even wanting Germany to leave the euro.
    Merkel said on Sunday that raising 'false expectations' of any deal at the summit would itself cause turbulence on markets

  11. #26

    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Quote Originally Posted by ang View Post
    Deficit this year 77% lower than it was for the same time last year.
    Okay. But they still have a left-over deficit from their shortfall last year? It's hardly just a case of stumping up €904m and they're a debt-free nation, I'd say no country in the developed world is in that position right now?

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    @evercloserunion, yes they still have a huge deficit from previous, but this is a good start considering they started their fiscal adjustments quite late in the day.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    January was a contradictory month for the EU - the PMIs were right up - showing fast growth in both manufacturing and services
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking27.html
    but there was a steep drop in capital goods, used in investment.

    The situation is still very shaky.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking28.html

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    The Euro fell one per cent against the dollar yesterday. No deal.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62N2WV20100325

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Strains on the Eurozone

    Angela is not budging.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel has told Germany's parliament she will insist that the IMF is involved if debt-ridden Greece needs to be bailed out.

    Before heading to an EU summit in Brussels, she made clear she would disappoint other countries, like France, which want a purely EU bailout.

    Mrs Merkel also said she would seek EU treaty changes to stop future crises.

    Germany has blocked a pre-summit meeting of eurozone leaders to discuss the Greek crisis.

    Berlin apparently believes there is no point in such a meeting because a deal is not imminent.
    She also said she would press for the EU to amend its treaties to strengthen its ability to prevent future budget crises.
    IMF and changes to treaties.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8586465.stm

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