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Thread: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by barrym View Post
    Can you see the rural farm based punter linking arms with the 32 county solidarity movement and the Dublin 4 grey haired??

    Haha that's a pretty damn scary and weird combination! There's plenty of anti-left bashing out there as if there wasn't before. Now that some left candidates have gained votes/seats (Socialist Party/PBP) and Labour seem set to make some historic gains all the old chestnuts will come out.

    And the effect ? Well Gilmore's going to run through an Obama-campaign of offering the sun the moon and the stars and then selling people out so there'll be plenty of disillusionment there.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Design for Life View Post
    Well Gilmore's going to run through an Obama-campaign of offering the sun the moon and the stars and then selling people out so there'll be plenty of disillusionment there.
    Will that make him any different from the others, including FF? for what its worth.

    On the assumption we get a Gen El before the revolution then we'll get more of the same, of course they'll promise 'no more of the same' but who believes that?

    As I've said, get out there to every meeting you can and ask the questions. Otherwise they'll ride roughshod over ye.

  3. #33
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    One of the worrying aspects not in the article itself (outside of the Tea Bag/scum Bag prediction) but highlighted in the online response and subject of discussion by Fintan O Toole today is the question of bitter social divisions.
    Already in the responses are a small percentage asking who hell Kelly is to talk with his fat salary etc etc tragic etc
    Dumbass, scary and all ahead of us.
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 09-11-2010 at 06:17 PM.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    One of the worrying aspects that not in the article but highlighted in the online response and alluded to Fintan O Toole today is teh question of bitter social divisions.
    Already in the responses are a small percentage asking who hell Kelly is to talk with his fat salary etc etc tragic etc
    Dumbass, scary and all ahead of us.
    Fintan O'Toole gave a good interview on "The Right Hook" today. He would cut wages down to a max of €100,000 for anyone in public pay for the duration of the crisis.

    That should help to deal with the "social division" issue.

  5. #35
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Fintan O'Toole gave a good interview on "The Right Hook" today. He would cut wages down to a max of €100,000 for anyone in public pay for the duration of the crisis.

    That should help to deal with the "social division" issue.
    It would indeed. Anyhow I'm off out to mug an academic to pay a professional (dentist).

    FOT piece on the Finn's wrong and right turns was so obviously sound you can expect it to be ignored.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Kelly's article was spot on... although I think even he may have underestimated the extent of the mortgage problem. He didn't even begin to touch the fact that probably 98% of the badly mortgaged are couples with young children and their plight will be visited on the next generation with a vengeance. The psychological traumas will echo on down the generations for quite some time (one lone positive might be a prolonged debt aversion). This isn't so much a class divide (very little difference now between an unemployed architect's family, a long term unemployed family, and an underworked solicitor whose salary leaves very little left over after the mortgage is paid... and the partner's job is on the line) as a generational one. We have pensioners (so far largely unscathed), the working middle aged (mortgages mostly small), parents with younger children (mostly at debt's door) and pre-property owning (low debts, but most likely to be unemployed or to have few prospects).

    Meanwhile, many of the pensioners who have more than the basic state payment spend most of their time in their second homes abroad or taking holidays, while their children struggle with oversized mortgages and their grandchildren either can't find work or are having their educational entitlements slashed from under them.

    But we're all so class obsessed we're not seeing the wood for the trees. For someone who bought their house for 40 odd grand in the 1980s, they're still in clover.

    Meanwhile, the tone of his article missed another point, too.... it isn't just our system that is broken. Our politicians have enormous power; the system is so fragile that a threat to take matters into our own hands and pull the "bond holder haircut" lever could plunge the Western, nay even the world financial system into chaos based on the domino effect; we could make government borrowing from anyone other than their own citizens a no-go zone for decades as banks internationally nurse their losses on 7 trillion of PIIGS bonds. The very prospect of this would give the ECB etc the vapours, given that German, French and UK banks rather stupidly lent OUR banksters more than 3x GDP collectively, in a short time interval. Due diligence, anyone?? Seanie Fitz wasn't the only stupid optimist out there

    Our pols should remember the old saying that if you owe the bank 10K, your problem, owe them 1 million, THEIR problem. Of course, these days ye've to add a good few zeros to both those figures to let it make sense

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    One of the worrying aspects not in the article itself (outside of the Tea Bag/scum Bag prediction) but highlighted in the online response and subject of discussion by Fintan O Toole today is the question of bitter social divisions.
    Already in the responses are a small percentage asking who hell Kelly is to talk with his fat salary etc etc tragic etc
    Dumbass, scary and all ahead of us.

    With regards to this "new social media" thing and politics/economics/social debates and discussion I think there's an existential issue here: do the boards.ie sites and the facebook discussions and the IT comments section mean anything? Are these real people who also speak and vote with these opinions in real life or are they trolls?

    Unfortunately I've a feeling that it's a bit of both. I reckon there's a lot of fairly right wing people in online discussions in Ireland. Right wing in the sense that they'd rather pay for public services at the point of consumption than pay equitable levels of tax on their incomes and wealth.

    Anyways, with regards to the actual comment on Kelly's character, this type of character assassination is all over the place. Fintan O'Toole and Vincent Browne have been accused of being communist Trots - who are they to talk about equality when they're commanding high salaries etc.

    The problem with this is that it comes from all ends - the hard left dismiss them as pinko media puppets servicing their ego and then others just use the character assassination to debase and dismiss their opinions and points as well as the questions they ask.

    It's a problem with left/right discussions and debates: if you're on a wealth salary and you're advocating austerity to the people beneath you you're not pulled up on your high salary but if you're addressing inequalities or advocating pain being taken by people who have a lot of money and who can afford it then the character assassination comes out.

    It's pretty pathetic but a very vindictive tactic. It's the sorta stuff Michael McDowell would do - "go back to the kebabs". It's often coupled with of course a complete dismissal of "the plebs" ie. the people suffering real austerity - noone ever asks a worker on min wage or lower what they think of inequalities and austerity because "ah sure beggars can't be choosers".

    I think it's a very elaborate and very effective system of indoctrination which guarantees that the real issues aren't dealt with.


    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Fintan O'Toole gave a good interview on "The Right Hook" today. He would cut wages down to a max of €100,000 for anyone in public pay for the duration of the crisis.

    That should help to deal with the "social division" issue.
    http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/221/tuesday/2/popup

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    This isn't so much a class divide (very little difference now between an unemployed architect's family, a long term unemployed family, and an underworked solicitor whose salary leaves very little left over after the mortgage is paid... and the partner's job is on the line) as a generational one.

    But is there not still a class divide there within the unemployed? How deep does class go? Does it stretch to ones own view of themselves?

    I do wonder what effect the anti-welfare rightist rants have on the likes of your unemployed architect who were to be the new kings of Ireland. How will they feel about slave labour work-for-welfare schemes?

    Is there any stats for the make up of the unemployed? Sinn Fein (and I think FG) were looking for a question to be added to the census on people's employment status. Of course it was rubbished and they were told it was too late as the forms had been printed...


    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    Meanwhile, many of the pensioners who have more than the basic state payment spend most of their time in their second homes abroad or taking holidays, while their children struggle with oversized mortgages and their grandchildren either can't find work or are having their educational entitlements slashed from under them.
    We very much need evidence on these stereotypes. How many people in reciept of the OAP have second trophy/holiday homes with loadsa money stashed away?

  8. #38
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Far be it from me to defend Mullah McDowell, but just on a point of order, I think it was Conor Lenihan with the Kebab comment.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Ah soz... though McDowell did often snigger and taunt Higgins.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Jody Corcoran in todays Sindo hell bent on discrediting Morgan Kelly:-

    Kelly penned a polemic last week which, it is fair to say, caused a ripple around the world. It was picked up in Pakistan, I see, which raises another problem: the global village, 24-hour rolling news in the age of the internet, where nothing, not even general bullshit, gets filtered out.

    There is such a thing as too much of this, what Disraeli could call superior commercial knowledge. At the moment, there is way too much information out there, too easily accessible, all of it uncertain, with too few people applying sound judgement.
    Yet again the internet seems to be the source of a lot of our ills according to Jody.

    In the world of Jody, Morgan Kelly is doing all of this just to protect his salary:-

    He works in the public sector. At an informed guess, I would say his politics is Anybody But Fianna Fail. He is not too keen on Fine Gael either I imagine. That leaves Labour, maybe. Labour will not cut his salary.
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...n-2419339.html

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    I am surprised at the ad hominem remarks here on Morgan Kelly. It is one thing for Jody Corcoran to make a fatuous comment about Kelly protecting his salary, but unusual here to have somone question whether he has been on his holidays. He has been giving his message consistently over the last six months, as my very brief search shows. And getting lots of grief for his views. (the account of his Kenmare showing on the People's Republic of Cork site is worth a read)


    http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancen..._1019701.shtml at the end of May
    taken from this article
    http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/5040

    17-19 June at UCD under the auspices of the European Consortium of Political Research Standing Group on Regulatory Governance.

    http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com....php?p=2973985 in October

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11CCxv2ueiQ"]YouTube - Morgan Kelly PrimeTime 20080930[/ame] on Prime Time on July 16th

    There's more but I think that's enough to make the point. He is neither the appointed messenger to us nor is he idle.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    ... we only count arrears from 90 days or more. The international standard is to count from 30 days or more, but we have no idea of that amount.

    What are the real arrears figures? - Irish Mortgage Brokers Blog
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Interesting how a little closer look at the figures brings the figure of those in arrears soaring up to near the 90,000 mark, so close to Kelly's 100,000. Very disturbing. There will be no bailout here; no debt forgiveness. Just capitalist risk for the poor and socialist welfare for the rich.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectabilis View Post
    Interesting how a little closer look at the figures brings the figure of those in arrears soaring up to near the 90,000 mark, so close to Kelly's 100,000. Very disturbing. There will be no bailout here; no debt forgiveness. Just capitalist risk for the poor and socialist welfare for the rich.
    The Irish government says mortgage holders should be allowed to defer some interest payments for as long as five years. Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said the government accepted the recommendations of its Expert Group on Mortgage Arrears and Personal Debt - LINK, which today proposed that the program be established to defer as much as a third of interest payments for borrowers struggling to meet obligations on home loans. Reuters
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Morgan Kelly on the next stage of the banking collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    The Irish government says mortgage holders should be allowed to defer some interest payments for as long as five years. Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said the government accepted the recommendations of its Expert Group on Mortgage Arrears and Personal Debt - LINK, which today proposed that the program be established to defer as much as a third of interest payments for borrowers struggling to meet obligations on home loans. Reuters
    Lenihan is still waiting for the upturn. He just doesn't get it.

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