The Supernatural

[jmcc]

Nice find and looking into the symbolism contained within it. Are you too?
Any links to cultural art or historian opinions on this piece?

The most obvious thing is that it is not "symbolic" in the art critic sense but rather a depiction of reality as it was then. The two ships in the foreground are interesting because one is an Egyptian style barge and the other, to the right, is a high prowed wooden ship. If you want to get vaguely symbolic about it, it even shows a representation of a golden fleece.

Another thing, do you note the figures on high with their heads turned to a glow emanating from the right? My eyes see a square grid pattern hidden to most eyes i'm sure [less you see it as i do]

It is a side-on view of some buildings with the island of Thera in the background before the volcano blew. It is also probably a view/map from the harbour.

Regards...jmcc

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

The ships are interesting alright- sometimes comparisons of goods which can only have entered a site by trade or plunder is interesting. In a dig in Egypt four small wooden chests were discovered which dated back at least two millenia before Jiminy Cricket and in it were found various jewels, a block of lapis lazuli, oils from cedars of lebanon and some jewellery of Minoan origin.

The implication of much more widespread trade in the eastern Med thousands of years B.C.E opens up all sorts of interesting cross cultural pathways. As jmcc pointed out the two ships in the harbour at Thera are of different design.... Theran and Phoenician? Egyptian? Who knows?

[Trow]

Trow is afraid of something its in the way he is always verging on aggression. So many references to violence can only be to disguise fear. I suspect the Trow is a cover for fears that are much closer to home... .

It's my warlike disposition. Note the wee smiley icon above when i asked ''Do i detect whirlwinds and bolts of lightening?'' Then what happened?

Maybe tis Bernadette who covers fears much closer to home.

[bernadette]

It's my warlike disposition. Note the wee smiley icon above when i asked ''Do i detect whirlwinds and bolts of lightening?'' Then what happened?

Maybe tis Bernadette who covers fears much closer to home.

Hello Trow

The whirlwinds and bolts of lightening were all in your head I'm afraid. I got the impression you were like some Friday night bovver boy looking for a fight...

Of course never having met such a creature...I could be wrong.

Death happens and the closer we get to it the more we fear it. A relative of mine spent, as he grew older, most of his time in the local RCC church. It irritated the hell out of me. Whatever else happens I don't, and nor should anyone else, want to live in fear of death, that's not living that's waiting.

[Trow]

Death happens and the closer we get to it the more we fear it. A relative of mine spent, as he grew older, most of his time in the local RCC church. It irritated the hell out of me. Whatever else happens I don't, and nor should anyone else, want to live in fear of death, that's not living that's waiting.

Now my course is tough:
Death, close sister
of Odin's enemy
stands on the ness:
with resolution
and without remorse
I will gladly
await my own.

From the poem...Sonatorrek.

[bernadette]

Now my course is tough:
Death, close sister
of Odin's enemy
stands on the ness:
with resolution
and without remorse
I will gladly
await my own.

From the poem...Sonatorrek.

Its a Lament!

I can't go much further than that Trow. I was introduced to Sonatorrek by a friend but I confess I don't remember much of it. It was soon after becoming a believer and I recall because its why I was introduced to it that it has pagan overtones. I don't know what the problem is.

A lament is about loss. Waiting for death is not something I can empathise with I'm afraid I think maybe in spite of all my faults and my own imperfect health, I expect to live forever..... I would and have in the past reacted to what I thought was illhealth, and I have been wrong.

Blessings I will find and read Sonatorrek..

[Trow]

Its a Lament!

I can't go much further than that Trow. I was introduced to Sonatorrek by a friend but I confess I don't remember much of it. It was soon after becoming a believer and I recall because its why I was introduced to it that it has pagan overtones. I don't know what the problem is.

A lament is about loss. Waiting for death is not something I can empathise with I'm afraid I think maybe in spite of all my faults and my own imperfect health, I expect to live forever..... I would and have in the past reacted to what I thought was illhealth, and I have been wrong.

Blessings I will find and read Sonatorrek..

Sonatorrek ("the irreparable loss of sons") is a skaldic poem in 25 stanzas by Egill Skallagrímsson (ca. 910–990).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonatorrek

. Quote... The work laments the death of two of the poet's sons, Gunnar, who died of a fever, and Böðvarr, who drowned during a storm. It is preserved in Egils saga Skalla-Grímssonar, ch. 78, which is included in the 14th-century compilation, Möðruvallabók. According to the saga, after Egill placed Böðvarr in the family burial mound, he locked himself in his bed-chamber, determined to starve himself to death. Egill’s daughter diverted him from this plan in part by convincing him to compose a memorial poem for Böðvarr, to be carved on a rune-staff. unquote.

Don't have to read up on it Bernadette, i used it to say ''I don't fear death'' just don't want to sit around getting old and frail, rather an honourable one in battle.

I am carving a similar staff in Ogham.

[bernadette]

Sonatorrek ("the irreparable loss of sons") is a skaldic poem in 25 stanzas by Egill Skallagrímsson (ca. 910–990).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonatorrek

. Quote... The work laments the death of two of the poet's sons, Gunnar, who died of a fever, and Böðvarr, who drowned during a storm. It is preserved in Egils saga Skalla-Grímssonar, ch. 78, which is included in the 14th-century compilation, Möðruvallabók. According to the saga, after Egill placed Böðvarr in the family burial mound, he locked himself in his bed-chamber, determined to starve himself to death. Egill’s daughter diverted him from this plan in part by convincing him to compose a memorial poem for Böðvarr, to be carved on a rune-staff. unquote.

Don't have to read up on it Bernadette, i used it to say ''I don't fear death'' just don't want to sit around getting old and frail, rather an honourable one in battle.

I am carving a similar staff in Ogham.

Old yes! Frail NO! May the Gods spare us all from frailty.

I will read it my appetites been whetted and now I will have to remind myself.

I'm relieved you sound more positive and you can carve a staff for me too. I am likely to need it before you...

Blessings, grow in strength.

[Trow]

Welcome to Hel [Being] Quote..In Norse mythology, Hel is a being who presides over a realm of the same name, where she receives a portion of the dead unquote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)

Quote..This conception is in stark contrast to Hel's realm, the dreary subterranean abode ruled by its eponymous blue and black giantess Hel. The realm of punishment was a shore made of corpses called Náströnd within Hel. Her realm is separated from the world of the living by a rapid river across which leads the Gjallarbrú that the dead have to pass. The gates are heavy, and close behind those who pass it and will never return again. Hel is the final destination of those who do not die in battle, but of old age or disease. There is reason to assume that the ideas of Hel are coloured by Christian influences which taught that there was a realm of punishment in contrast to paradise. The word Helviti, which still is the name of Hell in modern Scandinavian languages, means "Hel's punishment". It is not certain that the notion of Hel was very dark and dreary to pagan Scandinavians. In Baldrs draumar, we learn that Hel had decorated a lavish feasting table when she waited for Baldr to enter her halls. Still, it was probably not a very attractive destination, as the sagas tell of warriors who cut themselves with spears before dying in order to trick Hel into thinking that they had died heroic deaths in battle.unquote

The Soul.....Quote..There are at least two currently known interpretations of soul from accounts of ancient Norse belief. The last breath a person took was understood to be an evaporation of the life principle into a source of life that was primeval and common, and which was in the world of the gods, nature and the universe.
There was also a "free soul" or "dream soul" that could only leave the body during moments of unconsciousness, ecstasy, trance and sleep. The conscious soul which comprised emotions and will was located in the body and it could only be released when the body was destroyed through decay or immolation. When the body had been broken down, the conscious soul could start its journey to the realm of the dead, possibly by using the free soul as an intermediary unquote.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_Norse_paganism

Great reading in those links, enjoy.

[fluffybiscuits]

Welcome to Hel [Being] Quote..In Norse mythology, Hel is a being who presides over a realm of the same name, where she receives a portion of the dead unquote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)

Quote..This conception is in stark contrast to Hel's realm, the dreary subterranean abode ruled by its eponymous blue and black giantess Hel. The realm of punishment was a shore made of corpses called Náströnd within Hel. Her realm is separated from the world of the living by a rapid river across which leads the Gjallarbrú that the dead have to pass. The gates are heavy, and close behind those who pass it and will never return again. Hel is the final destination of those who do not die in battle, but of old age or disease. There is reason to assume that the ideas of Hel are coloured by Christian influences which taught that there was a realm of punishment in contrast to paradise. The word Helviti, which still is the name of Hell in modern Scandinavian languages, means "Hel's punishment". It is not certain that the notion of Hel was very dark and dreary to pagan Scandinavians. In Baldrs draumar, we learn that Hel had decorated a lavish feasting table when she waited for Baldr to enter her halls. Still, it was probably not a very attractive destination, as the sagas tell of warriors who cut themselves with spears before dying in order to trick Hel into thinking that they had died heroic deaths in battle.unquote

The Soul.....Quote..There are at least two currently known interpretations of soul from accounts of ancient Norse belief. The last breath a person took was understood to be an evaporation of the life principle into a source of life that was primeval and common, and which was in the world of the gods, nature and the universe.
There was also a "free soul" or "dream soul" that could only leave the body during moments of unconsciousness, ecstasy, trance and sleep. The conscious soul which comprised emotions and will was located in the body and it could only be released when the body was destroyed through decay or immolation. When the body had been broken down, the conscious soul could start its journey to the realm of the dead, possibly by using the free soul as an intermediary unquote.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_Norse_paganism

Great reading in those links, enjoy.

Astral projection? My cousin was telling me about how she does it or tries it sometimes. She imagines the third eye on her forehead?

[bernadette]

Astral projection? My cousin was telling me about how she does it or tries it sometimes. She imagines the third eye on her forehead?

I don't think the third or middle eye has a specific location. I always think of instinct and premonition as a whole body ability and/or experience.

The link to Hel was interesting I'm still delving into it. Hel is mentioned in the poem Trow quotes. Death and eroticsm, always there has to be the link to pleasure, but only if we're heroic. If we're you're ordinary job blogs - forget it, its an afterlife of servitude for us!

[Trow]

Astral projection? My cousin was telling me about how she does it or tries it sometimes. She imagines the third eye on her forehead?

I don't think the third or middle eye has a specific location. I always think of instinct and premonition as a whole body ability and/or experience.

The link to Hel was interesting I'm still delving into it. Hel is mentioned in the poem Trow quotes. Death and eroticsm, always there has to be the link to pleasure, but only if we're heroic. If we're you're ordinary job blogs - forget it, its an afterlife of servitude for us!

I share your opinion on ''whole body experience''

Don't go delving too deep into Hel.

When you think about it, during our conscious lives is'nt ''the ordinary job blogs'' in servitude to something/someone? [Armies,war,Class war/slave to ''the man''nations and all that]

If you look around, life can be Hel too. Still, other forms of eroticsm to please our souls.

Quote...Psychoanalytical approach

For a psychoanalytical definition, as early as Freud psychotherapists have turned to the ancient Greek philosophy's "overturning of mythology" as a definition to understanding of the heightened aesthetic. For Plato, Eros takes an almost transcendent manifestation when the subject seeks to go beyond itself and form a communion with the objectival other: "the true order of going...to the things of love, is to use the beauties of earth as steps...to all fair forms, and from fair forms to fair actions, and from fair actions to fair notions, until from fair notions he arrives at the notion of absolute beauty". unquote.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eroticism

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

What a brilliant quote and I shall be tracking along that thoughtline. I hadn't heard the Greek philosophy of 'overturning of mythology' towards understanding the heightened aesthetic. I've been all too aware of how much mythology can make us prisoners though.

The more I consider it the more I think there is something to that. I'm sure Plato will be relieved to hear it

I was at a conference thingy the other day and half-listening to a chap from a high level Innovation spin-out factory attached to one of the better universities and something flashed by that caught my attention again.

Clinging always to the notion expressed by Santoyana and nicked by Churchill that 'those who do not know the past face/ are condemned to an uncertain future' I noticed that this chap in discussing the methodology of approaching innovation had on his last slide the remark;

'Hindsight plus innovation equals foresight'. Another version of the same thing I suppose. The more I study the past the more I feel it is possible to run a rule across certain futures- as long as the dynamics in evidence can be described.

[bernadette]

I share your opinion on ''whole body experience''

Don't go delving too deep into Hel.

When you think about it, during our conscious lives is'nt ''the ordinary job blogs'' in servitude to something/someone? [Armies,war,Class war/slave to ''the man''nations and all that]

If you look around, life can be Hel too. Still, other forms of eroticsm to please our souls.

Quote...Psychoanalytical approach

For a psychoanalytical definition, as early as Freud psychotherapists have turned to the ancient Greek philosophy's "overturning of mythology" as a definition to understanding of the heightened aesthetic. For Plato, Eros takes an almost transcendent manifestation when the subject seeks to go beyond itself and form a communion with the objectival other: "the true order of going...to the things of love, is to use the beauties of earth as steps...to all fair forms, and from fair forms to fair actions, and from fair actions to fair notions, until from fair notions he arrives at the notion of absolute beauty". unquote.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eroticism

Its not surprising to find that the great philosophers thought about eroticism and heightened senses. Sexually was physically relatively easy, other more transcendential methods took either hours or mediation or both, often involving chanting or some sort of other stimulus, drugs and alcohol being the most common.

The, what amounts to, gang rape of the young girl seems an example of pushing the limits in an attempt to gain a collective high and possibly an extension of the highs experienced in battles won.

I think I must look up Tantric experiences to check similarities of experiences. I remember watching a documentary on channel 4. It was a long time ago and what stands out is the openness of sex in some religions. Everything from the religious container in the shape of a vagina to the man pulling a cart along, with his penis.

To western christian societies probably bordering on obscene but interesting to see other faiths and how in some cases devotion to the faith effects followers to either ignore or not feel pain.

Hel, a Goddess capable of good and bad. I'm afraid capable of good and bad is about as close as I am or will get to it!

[Trow]

Hel, a Goddess capable of good and bad. I'm afraid capable of good and bad is about as close as I am or will get to it!

I guess Hel's human afterall. Not to say she's in every woman. [present company excluded ] but in the same mythology we find stories of seers [female] who it is lored had trolls [another name for a trow]. [Celt.] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandin...olklore#Trolls

One most notorious female seer was vilsinn vǫlu, [companion of the seer/seeress. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lva

Quote..The völur were known for their art of seduction, which was one of the reasons why they were considered dangerous. One of the stanzas in Hávamál warns against sexual intercourse with a woman who is skilled in magic, because the one who does so runs the risk of being caught in a magic bond and also risks getting ill. Freyja, who is the mistress of seiðr, has a free sexual life that gives her a bad reputation in certain myths.
One of the methods for seducing men may have been the use of drugs. In Fyrkat, the grave of a völva revealed the use of henbane, a drug which not only produces hallucinations but can also be a powerful aphrodisiac. If Freyja was the goddess of love in Asgard, the völva was her counterpart in Midgard.unquote..

Sex and Drugs and Lore.

Any women around like that today?