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Thread: 262 Schools On Strike, School Students Tear Gassed, All Refineries Closed in France

  1. #1
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    Default French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension - Millions Demonstrate

    An increase of 2 years in the retirement age is the first French austerity proposal.

    As far as I know, all workers retire on 50% of final salary if they have met the minimum contribution requirements.

    France's retirement age will be raised from 60 to 62 over the next eight years as part of sweeping pension reforms, the government has announced.

    French labour minister Eric Woerth told reporters that working longer was "inevitable", and necessary to balance the public finances.

    The move is designed to reduce France's pension costs and bring public borrowing down.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10326002.stm
    Last edited by C. Flower; 07-09-2010 at 06:41 PM.
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    The French are always cool, calm and collected about these decisions. Never ones for rash impulsive lightening strikes and they have a social anxiety about hitting the streets over political and social issues. I expect no fightback at all from the natives over this............
    "When people fear the government, we have tyranny. When the government fear the people we have liberty."

    Thomas Jefferson.

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    As far as I know, all workers retire on 50% of final salary if they have met the minimum contribution requirements.
    All workers? I dont believe that.

    What you really mean is all public sector employees. Ill bet workers in the productive sector get no pension at all, unless they save for it. Thats how it is in Ireland.

    Workers in the wealth creating sector in Ireland, like Microsoft, Intel, pharma etc get no pension unless they save it themselves. I dont believe France is any different.

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    Quote Originally Posted by TaxationIsTheft View Post
    All workers? I dont believe that.

    What you really mean is all public sector employees. Ill bet workers in the productive sector get no pension at all, unless they save for it. Thats how it is in Ireland.

    Workers in the wealth creating sector in Ireland, like Microsoft, Intel, pharma etc get no pension unless they save it themselves. I dont believe France is any different.
    No. It's done differently on the Continent. All workers enjoy good pensions not just the politicians and public/civil servants

    For all salaried workers and civil servants : a national system which grants 50 to 55 % of the income (if you have worked 40 years) This system is totally different from the US system. It adds a Social Security pension and a system of Retraite Complémentaire. Everybody is entitled to the first one, which is based on the concept of "repartition", instead of "capitalization". Each year, it distributes what has been collected among active people : it is, therefore, sensitive to demography and employment (less people, less money) but disconnected from the financial market (which makes sense, these days...). Read more about it. The second one concerns mostly "cadres" i.e. people over a certain income, and is based on capitalization but it is national and therefore totally independent of the future of the companies you worked for.
    http://www.understandfrance.org/Paris/Life4.html

    Of course, this kind of pension system is not sustainable as it is funded by current workers. Although a good bout of high inflation might help..
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    No. It's done differently on the Continent. All workers enjoy good pensions not just the politicians and public/civil servants
    Fair enough, DCon, thanks for the correction.

    Its hard to know how they can afford that system. I mean if every single retired person gets 50% of their final salary every year for the rest of their lives, and its entirely funded by currently working people. Then surely the working people must be paying around 30% of their salaries in contributions.

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    Quote Originally Posted by TaxationIsTheft View Post
    Its hard to know how they can afford that system.
    Well heres the answer to that question.
    The pay-as-you-go pension system alone is forecast to have a deficit of €32 billion, or $39 billion, this year.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/17/bu...17euro.html?hp

    France will have to make their pensions less generous, or increase the contributions, or the bond market vigilantes will target them, when theyre done with the PIIGS.

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    Quote Originally Posted by TaxationIsTheft View Post
    Fair enough, DCon, thanks for the correction.

    Its hard to know how they can afford that system. I mean if every single retired person gets 50% of their final salary every year for the rest of their lives, and its entirely funded by currently working people. Then surely the working people must be paying around 30% of their salaries in contributions.
    It is not affordable, especially with increased life expectancy. Politicians are slow to change the system as it is a guaranteed vote loser.

    It is even more generous in Germany..

    German State Pensions
    Participation in the German state pension scheme is mandatory for all permanent employees in Germany.

    The system is "pay as you go". This means that the contributions are deducted from your salary each month. Usually you won't even be asked, or perhaps even be aware that this is happening. It is all handled automatically by your employer. Check your payslip for the deduction labelled something like "RV-Beitrag". The "RV" stands for "Rentenversicherung" which literally translates to "retirement insurance".
    Exceptions for International Workers
    Participation is mandatory regardless of nationality. If your salary is being paid in Germany, and you are paying German taxes, then you must also pay the state pension contributions.

    An exception is made if you work for an international company and that company transfers you to Germany for less than 5 years. This is called a "detached worker".
    Contribution Rates
    The contribution rate is currently 19.5 percent of the gross salary (gross = total salary before tax). This contribution is shared equally between employee and employer. This means the employee pays 9.75% of their gross salary and the employer pays the same.

    Self-employed workers, with the exception of Ich-AG claimants, are not legally obliged to contribute to the state pension fund. If they choose to contribute, however, they must pay the full amount entirely themselves. Self-employed workers who claim the Ich-AG are obliged to contribute the full amount themselves.
    Benefit Payments
    State pension benefits are paid out on retirement. This begins at age 65 for both males and females. You must have contributed into the system for at least 5 years in order to qualify for benefits.

    The benefits paid out are about 70% of the average net income you earnt whilst working. The exact amount paid out depends on how much you put in and for how long. There are numerous other factors as well.
    http://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/G...state_pensions
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    The benefits paid out are about 70% of the average net income you earnt whilst working.
    The average salary over a lifetime would be less than the final salary. Which is what irish public sector pensions are based on.

    Lenihan announced in last budget that he's changing irish public sector pensions to average salary from final salary. So he's bringin us into line with other germany on that issue.

    But what he really needs to do is switch the whole public sector from "defined benefit" to "defined contribution" pensions. That way they only get out what they pay in. So they cant parasite off the general working population.

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    Quote Originally Posted by TaxationIsTheft View Post
    The average salary over a lifetime would be less than the final salary. Which is what irish public sector pensions are based on.

    Lenihan announced in last budget that he's changing irish public sector pensions to average salary from final salary. So he's bringin us into line with other germany on that issue.

    But what he really needs to do is switch the whole public sector from "defined benefit" to "defined contribution" pensions. That way they only get out what they pay in. So they cant parasite off the general working population.
    agreed.

    Under the Ahern vote buying, retired public sector got their pension's boosted based on the current salary of their former job. This was theft.
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    covered in the IT today.

    Figures look bad.

    France’s pension system is forecast to register a €32 billion deficit in 2010, with this figure set to rise above €100 billion by 2050. Mr Woerth said the proposals meant accounts would be balanced by 2018 and register a €100 million surplus in 2020. His forecast assumes the jobless rate would be 6.5 per cent in 2018 – a level not seen in France for many years.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...272698514.html
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    France urging the unions to don the blue jersey:

    France's Prime Minister Francois Fillon on Friday rebuffed unions angry over plans to raise the retirement age by two years, urging the French to show "courage" and make an unprecedented effort to cut the enormous national debt.
    Pay freeze being considered:

    The government said Friday it's considering freezing public sector salaries for the next three years -- a prospect that prompted unions to slam the door on salary talks with the labor minister in protest.

    Unions are energized after nationwide strikes and protests Thursday that brought nearly a million people to the streets to protest President Nicolas Sarkozy's bid to reform a money-losing pension system. The reform includes raising the retirement age from 60 to 62 -- which would still be among the lowest in Europe.
    Unions, of course, want those working to pay more tax to keep the retirees in their happy place

    Unions say money for the pension system should come from higher taxes or charges on those who are still working, and see cost-cutting in the pension system as an attack on a hard-fought way of life. The government says that given rising life expectancy, workers must retire later.

    Unions have long feared that public sector salaries could be targeted in cost-cutting measures, and the government confirmed Friday that a 3-year salary freeze is on the table, according to Jean-Marc Canon, head of the CGT-Fonction Publique union.
    http://www.boston.com/business/artic..._cost_cutting/

    The French government are rowing in too though!

    PARLIAMENTARY PENSIONS, a lavish Bastille Day garden party and ministers’ Cuban cigars are to be sacrificed in the name of economic recovery as the French government seeks to show that ministers are sharing the pain of their austerity drive.

    With his government attempting to raise the retirement age and bracing people for cuts of €45 billion in public spending, president Nicolas Sarkozy has said ministers must lead by example and reduce their own budgets. France has not yet set out a detailed austerity package, but the national auditing office recently called for urgent moves to trim the deficit.
    It was reported this week that prime minister François Fillon had asked junior minister Christian Blanc to reimburse the state €12,000 of taxpayers’ money which was used to buy expensive cigars.

    Le Canard Enchaîné, which has specialised in publishing details of ministers’ expenses, had published receipts from a Paris cigar shop for high-end Cuban brands that were billed to the government.

    Mr Blanc, a former head of Air France who is now junior minister for the greater Paris area, blamed a staff member for the purchases and has already reimbursed €3,500 for those he had smoked.
    Two months ago, Mr Fillon ordered ministers to take only commercial flights after his state secretary for overseas development, Alain Joyandet, spent €116,500 chartering a private jet to attend a conference in Martinique.

    Another perk in peril is the free Paris flat that goes automatically with cabinet rank, whether needed or not.

    That one hit the headlines when industry minister Christian Estrosi was revealed to be occupying rooms at the Economics Ministry in eastern Paris while lending a relative his official apartment overlooking the Eiffel Tower on the other side of the city.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...273365950.html
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    France being forced into extra action

    PARIS, June 30 (Reuters) - France lifted its debt forecasts
    on Wednesday as data showed measures to stimulate the economy
    had lifted public debt at the end of the first quarter to more
    than 80 percent of gross domestic product.

    The budget ministry forecast France's public debt would rise
    to 83.7 percent of GDP in 2010 before climbing to 86.5 percent
    in 2011, 87.5 percent in 2012 and 87 percent in 2013.

    It had previously forecast debt at 83.2 percent of GDP in
    2010, rising to 86.6 percent in 2013.

    At a cabinet meeting on Wednesday Budget Minister Francois
    Baroin presented plans to find an extra 10 billion euros ($12.20
    billion) in savings over three years.

    Baroin set out 150 measures aimed at bringing a "major
    contribution to straightening up public finances," as well as
    improving the quality of public services.

    Civil servant jobs in particular are targeted, according to
    a 250-page document released by the budget ministry. It
    confirmed plans to ensure that one out of every two civil
    servants taking retirement will not be replaced, representing
    savings of three billion euros.

    The number of civil servants would fall by an extra 100,000
    from 2011 to 2013. This would bring the number of civil servants
    to its 1990 level by the next presidential election in mid-2012.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE65T0TN20100630
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    National strike under way in France over this.

    France faces serious disruption on Tuesday in a nationwide strike to fight proposals to raise the retirement age.

    The 24-hour-strike is set to hit public transport, banks, air traffic and the postal service.

    Unions said they expected hundreds of thousands of private and public sector workers to take to the streets to protest about the plans.

    The strike date coincides with the presentation of the pension reform bill to parliament.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11204528
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    You've got to love the French. When did we become the Placid Irish?

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    Default Re: French workers will have to work until 62 to get big fat pension

    The French striking again? Shock, horror.

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