Mexico In Grip Of Drug Cartels -State Dept. wants US Troops/Obama backs Executive Privilege for "Fast & Furious" Gun Running

[rebellin]

-The US House of Representatives placed
Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress by a
255-67 vote today, for refusal to comply with a Congressional
subpoena of documents related to "Operation Fast and Furious," an
operation through which the US Bureau of of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms, under Eric Holder's Department of Justice, delivered
hundreds, or more likely thousands of high-powered US assault
weapons to the Mexican drug cartels, resulting in the deaths of
one to two US law enforcement agents, and hundreds of Mexicans.

Seventeen Democrats voted in favor of a criminal contempt
resolution. This Democratic support came despite a round of
behind-the-scenes lobbying by senior White House and Justice
officials - as well as pressure from party leaders including a
walkout from the House - all to support Holder, Politico
reported.

Holder is the first Cabinet officer ever to be held in
contempt of Congress in US history.." Never has
any Attorney General been so contemptuous of Congress, Rep.
Labrador (R-ID) noted during the debate.

Only two Republicans voted "no" on the measure, while 65
Democrats recorded "no" votes and 108 Democrats didn't cast
votes. Most of the latter had demonstratively walked out before
the vote, on orders from the Democratic leadership.

Democrats voting for the resolution were Reps. Jason Altmire
(Pa.), John Barrow (Ga.), Dan Boren (Okla.), Leonard Boswell
(Iowa), Ben Chandler (Ky.), Mark Critz (Pa.), Joe Donnelly
(Ind.), Kathy Hochul (N.Y.), Ron Kind (Wis.), Larry Kissell
(N.C.), Jim Matheson (Utah), Mike McIntyre (N.C.), Bill Owens
(N.Y.), Collin Peterson (Minn.), Nick Rahall (W.Va.), Mike Ross
(Ark.), and Tim Walz (Minn.). Many of these are quite open about
their opposition to Obama. Some are planning not to attend the Democratic Presidential Convention in Charlotte, N.C.

[Count Bobulescu]

WHAT NOW IN FAST AND FURIOUS? The House surprised no one by voting to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt on Thursday. The important thing to know is that Democratic defections were kept to a minimum—17—so the party can still plausibly call this a Republican effort. (More than 100 Democratic members walked out of the chamber without casting a vote.) House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., will probably take his beef to court and will likely avoid a Justice Department referral. Read more

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congr...tempt-20120628

11 HOUSE DEMS WHO TOOK NRA MONEY VOTED TO PROTECT HOLDER: "Eleven of the 25 House Democrats who've taken money this year from the National Rifle Association rejected the group's call to support Thursday's contempt vote against Attorney General Eric Holder," per Tarini Parti. "Reps. John Dingell (D- Mich.), Tim Holden (D-Pa.), Tim Ryan (D-Ohio), Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.), Michael Michaud (D-Maine), Henry Cuellar (D-Texas), Ben Ray Lujan (D-N.M.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) voted against holding Holder in contempt. Reps. Joe Baca (D-Calif.), Sanford Bishop (D-Ga.) and Dennis Cardoza (D-Calif.) did not vote. Only two Republicans - Rep. Scott Rigell (R-Va.) and Rep. Steven LaTourette (R-Ohio) voted against contempt. Both their campaigns have received $2,000 so far this year from the NRA." Blog post: http://politi.co/L7hiaj. Bigger story on Holder getting held in contempt: http://politi.co/N1oQHC.

[C. Flower]

WHAT NOW IN FAST AND FURIOUS? The House surprised no one by voting to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt on Thursday. The important thing to know is that Democratic defections were kept to a minimum—17—so the party can still plausibly call this a Republican effort. (More than 100 Democratic members walked out of the chamber without casting a vote.) House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., will probably take his beef to court and will likely avoid a Justice Department referral. Read more

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congr...tempt-20120628

11 HOUSE DEMS WHO TOOK NRA MONEY VOTED TO PROTECT HOLDER: "Eleven of the 25 House Democrats who've taken money this year from the National Rifle Association rejected the group's call to support Thursday's contempt vote against Attorney General Eric Holder," per Tarini Parti. "Reps. John Dingell (D- Mich.), Tim Holden (D-Pa.), Tim Ryan (D-Ohio), Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.), Michael Michaud (D-Maine), Henry Cuellar (D-Texas), Ben Ray Lujan (D-N.M.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) voted against holding Holder in contempt. Reps. Joe Baca (D-Calif.), Sanford Bishop (D-Ga.) and Dennis Cardoza (D-Calif.) did not vote. Only two Republicans - Rep. Scott Rigell (R-Va.) and Rep. Steven LaTourette (R-Ohio) voted against contempt. Both their campaigns have received $2,000 so far this year from the NRA." Blog post: http://politi.co/L7hiaj. Bigger story on Holder getting held in contempt: http://politi.co/N1oQHC.

Interesting post. Is it really all about gun sales though ?

[Count Bobulescu]

Interesting post. Is it really all about gun sales though ?

No, it has little to do with gun sales, but a lot to do with the power of the gun lobby. All the Dems who voted against Holder, are in tight electoral contests in november, and they were mostly voting strategically rather than on principle. Since few believe the criminal case against Holder is going anywhere soon, it is a cheap concession to make in order to help save your seat.
The civil case against Holder may end up in court sooner, but the prospects for that are not a lot brighter either.

[rebellin]

Christian Science Monitor run down on the history of fast and furious
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/07...ious-operation

[C. Flower]

Surely for the Attorney General, & and the President, to be in contempt of Congress, is not something that happens every day of the week. Is it not a very deep political crisis ?

[C. Flower]

Christian Science Monitor run down on the history of fast and furious
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/07...ious-operation

A clear report. The main questions seem to be the perennial "how high up did this go" and whether this operation was a very stupid attempt at a sting, or an extraordinarily obscene destabilisation operation.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/07...ious-operation.

[C. Flower]

I reread the Mexican thread and I have no objection on principle to the merge, but I do think it wouldn’t serve much purpose, therefore better not to. Here’s why.

The F&F and other similar programs have all now been discontinued and there will likely not be much new information on them, save for whatever records the Obama admin releases to Congress, and most believe that this will reveal only bureaucratic bungling rather than any malign intent. There was a similar program during the Bush years, so this “gun walking” is pretty old news and all of it stopped by 2010. It is now looked upon as a stupid plan.

If you look at all the current coverage it mostly focuses on the EP rather than the F&F aspect. The F&F side was dealt with in the US media two years ago, as is apparent from reading Rebellin’s postings in the Mexican thread. Going forward the debate such as it will be, will likely focus on EP rather than F&F, and EP has nothing to do with Mexico.


Your use of the term “swamping the Mexican drug cartles with guns” is probably an overstatement. F&F involved about 2,000 guns of which an unknown number believed in the 13 to 14 hundreds went missing. In the context of US and Mexican gun violence that’s pretty small beans. The purpose was to create entrapment to fight drug trafficking. Most of the guns used in the Mexican drug wars are smuggled in from the US. F&F and the other programs were an attempt to entrap the drug traffickers done with the blessing of the Mexican authorities.

On balance, I decided to merge the threads, as the importance of the issues of privilege in themselves are pretty abstract without the context of decapitations, torture, mass hangings from bridges etc. that we associate with the Sinaloa Cartel and similar.

[Count Bobulescu]

Surely for the Attorney General, & and the President, to be in contempt of Congress, is not something that happens every day of the week. Is it not a very deep political crisis ?

The President was not held in contempt, only the AG. Not a deep crisis at all. Just political grandstanding. See WaPo report in my next post.

[C. Flower]

The President was not held in contempt, only the AG. Not a deep crisis at all. Just political grandstanding. See WaPo report in my next post.

Beg your pardon, I had meant to correct that. The problem is Obama standing over Holden, and by implication this whole business.

The idea that Obama did not know about this operation - we saw his hands on involvement with bin Laden's purported assassination - seems on the improbable side.

[Count Bobulescu]

Well that didn’t take long, as expected, Justice Dept. says it will take no action on the criminal contempt citation of Holder. It’s now up to the House to take a civil case against Holder to court.

They certainly could do it, but are unlikely to do so, 1: because the courts do not like to referee disputes between Congress and the Executive as past experience shows, and 2: even if does eventually make it to a courtroom, Holder will no longer be AG, and a different House, that might have a different view will be in session. There is no way it would get to court before an election,

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department declared Friday that Attorney General Eric Holder’s decision to withhold information about a bungled gun-tracking operation from Congress does not constitute a crime and he won’t be prosecuted for contempt of Congress.

The House voted Thursday afternoon to find Holder in criminal and civil contempt for refusing to turn over the documents. President Barack Obama invoked his executive privilege authority and ordered Holder not to turn over materials about executive branch deliberations and internal recommendations.
.......

Gun-walking long has been barred by Justice Department policy, but federal agents in Arizona experimented with it in at least two investigations during the George W. Bush administration before Operation Fast and Furious. These experiments came as the department was under widespread criticism that the old policy of arresting every suspected low-level “straw purchaser” was failing to stop tens of thousands of guns from reaching Mexico, more than 68,000 in the last five years. A straw purchaser conceals that he is buying guns for others.

Fast and Furious identified more than 2,000 weapons suspected of being illicitly purchased. But agents lost track of many of the guns. Some 1,400 of them have yet to be recovered.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...c=al_comboNP_p

[Count Bobulescu]

Beg your pardon, I had meant to correct that. The problem is Obama standing over Holden, and by implication this whole business.

The idea that Obama did not know about this operation - we saw his hands on involvement with bin Laden's purported assassination - seems on the improbable side.

Different circumstances. Obama gave direct authorization for the Bin Laden raid but was not directly involved in F&F. Again, see WaPo in previous post it should clear up the pieces you are missing. The ball is now in the House' "court" lets see what they do with it. They've just recessed for the 4th of July holiday. they'll be back for a few weeks July, then in recess again for August. By September they'll be thinking about their November elections, so the calendar is against them. The Dems would just love it if they filed a civil suit.

[C. Flower]

Different circumstances. Obama gave direct authorization for the Bin Laden raid but was not directly involved in F&F. Again, see WaPo in previous post it should clear up the pieces you are missing. The ball is now in the House' "court" lets see what they do with it. They've just recessed for the 4th of July holiday. they'll be back for a few weeks July, then in recess again for August. By September they'll be thinking about their November elections, so the calendar is against them. The Dems would just love it if they filed a civil suit.

We only know he was involved in the raid because a decision was made to publicise it.

[Count Bobulescu]

We only know he was involved in the raid because a decision was made to publicise it.

During the 08 campaign he said he would go into Pakistan after not just Bin Laden but others as well, and was roundly criticized by Hilary, Joe Biden and others. So if he had denied involvement no one would have believed him.

[C. Flower]

An Iran Contra Whistleblower has been jailed for selling one gun in a BATF sting.

Given the track record, the question comes up as to whether there is US government involvement in the movement of drugs north, as well as the movement of guns south.

Cele Castillo served for 12 years in the Drug Enforcement Administration where he built cases against organized drug rings in Manhattan, raided jungle cocaine labs in the amazon, conducted aerial eradication operations in Guatemala, and assembled and trained anti-narcotics units in several countries.

The eerie climax of agent Castillo's career with the DEA took place in El Salvador. One day, he received a cable from a fellow agent. He was told to investigate possible drug smuggling by Nicaraguan Contras operating from the Ilopango Air Force Base.

Castillo quickly discovered that the Contra pilots were, indeed, smuggling narcotics back into the United States - using the same pilots, planes and hangers that the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Council, under the direction of Lt. Col. Oliver North, used to maintain their covert supply operation to the Contras.

http://www.freecelecastillo.com/index2.html

http://www.freecelecastillo.com/