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Thread: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    One of the issues being discussed in the US is the difference in Afghan reaction so far to this event, compared to the much more violent reaction to the burning of the Quran’s. Burning an effigy of Obama seems to be the height of it so far. Various theories to explain are being advanced.

    1: The burnings were seen as an attack on all Muslims.

    2: The burning protests were stoked or organized.

    3: Word of the killings has not spread as quickly because Afghan state TV is not giving it wall to wall coverage as it apparently did for the burnings.

    4: While this event is big news in the US and west, ordinary Afghans inured to violence do not distinguish between rogue actors and US policy.

    Seems to me there could be some truth to all of the above. It’s notable also that an Afghan government delegation that went to visit the victims families was fired upon by the Taliban who are vowing to avenge.

    Here’s a panel discussing the issue for 50 minutes.

    http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/20...ghan-villagers
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    First up, I made a mistake above when I said the shootings occurred Friday night-Saturday morning Afghan time. I was Saturday night-Sunday morning. My apologies.
    Good for you, I however, did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Now I’ll give you some nit picking.
    Why you would want to admit nit-picking is beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    I don’t know which “breaking news” reports you are referring to, and I likely didn’t see them so it’s pointless debating that. But I will note this, the time stamp on the Guardian piece cited by TM is 10.48 am EDT, or 2.48pm UK. TM had it up here one hour later, and explicitly stated 16 dead. The Guardian piece also states 16 dead, and notes that the event took place after 3.00 am Afghan, or 7.30am UK. Guardian was reporting 16 dead seven hours after the event, but makes no mention of any reports of mental breakdown by military. Guardian and US sources WaPo etc cite AP with breaking the story. I don’t know where you got your figure of nine dead, and until I know that I’ll treat your claim of military stating mental breakdown as the cause, that early in the story, with equal suspicion. The Guardian article says specifically:
    So, I’m left scratching my head wondering how you could find “disrespectful” something that apparently wasn’t said.
    Well, I have a choice of many links as a simple google search would show but how about this one from the BBC's flagship Sunday News discussion programme, 'The Andrew Marr Show'. (9am UK time, Sunday Morning)

    There are news headlines near the beginning and at 4min20 sec the newsreader tells us that a US Soldier has killed THREE civillians and that a spokesman says he suffered a mental breakdown. If this isn't enough for you I'm at a loss.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ow_11_03_2012/

    So at 9am, only 3 dead but the medical condition of the killer assessed and released, maybe now would be the point you could acknowledge that my points were both valid and accurate. I appreciate it is difficult to apologise when you have made a reft of accusations which are clearly inaccurate so simply acknowledging it would suffice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Your story simply doesn’t fit the timeline, and I wonder if you just made it up out of thin air to support your political views.
    Ooops, Count, appears you have exposed yourself a little here. Careful reading of my posts will show that there was nothing political in any of it, simply pointing out the haste with which excuses were made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    You could help solve this mystery by telling us when and where you first heard the news of nine dead. BBC, Al Jaz, Skibereen Eagle, The Onion?
    No, just the BBC, the figure obviously grew through the morning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Beyond that, I’d suggest you really need to get your self some better news sources, or maybe just click the links and follow the discussion.
    Seems, my sources were good enough, I assume the BBC got their information from the same NATO/US spokespeople.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Oh, and one more thing, If you think you’re gonna bully me into silence by threatening to question my motives you got another thing comin. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised by that tactic from someone who chooses a moniker that is a synonym for violence. Any more mis-information from you could lead to questioning of………….. Or maybe you’d like to retract that statement?
    Irony piled on irony perched on satire Count, you look a tad foolish now no?

    When you turn on my username (the first thing which popped into my head about 5 years ago joining another forum and the nickname of a retired Irish politician) then I think we can see the trouble your argument is in.

    This is an anonymous discussion forum populated by anonymous contributors, stop trying to make it sound like something more sinister.
    Last edited by 5intheface; 14-03-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Further links from Sunday, all before the total of 16 had been reached, all already aware of the medical condition of the killer;

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/31...r-governor.htm

    http://www.portalangop.co.ao/motix/e...72eeaf25f.html

    http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2012...-kandahar.html

    http://www.banglanews24.com/English/...=2012031235571

    http://www.khaama.com/us-soldier-ope...n-kandahar-823

    http://www.disclose.tv/forum/us-sold...ar-t69258.html

    I could go on and on and that's not to mention the ones that turn up on a google search but whose pages have been updated to 16 since.

    At the same time,


    "It was a shooting incident involving multiple civilians wounded," said the (ISAF)spokesman, Captain Justin Brockhoff, adding that there were no initial reports of deaths in the attack which took place on Sunday.
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Why don't we all just admit that Afghanistan is ungovernable, give up and walk away? I'm not sure centuries of foreign messing have done the place any good at all (quite the contrary).

    I'm no fonder of the Taliban's record on women's rights than anyone else, but I'm not sure any guerilla movement is defeatable in mountainous terrain, by a foreign occupation that is, let's be honest, rapidly running out of both money and will power.

    Apparently even some of the Republican candidates in the US are questioning the future of this. It's over, folks. They just have to admit it.

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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    The American soldier has been taken to Kuwait.

    The Afghans wanted to try him themselves.
    It was never going to happen.

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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Griska View Post
    The Afghans wanted to try him themselves.
    It was never going to happen.
    US service memvers who are stationed abroad, even in allied countries, can't even be tried for motoring offences, never mind mass murder.

    Totally OT: I just read that 3 French paratroopers have been murdered in a drive-by shooting in Southern France, only last week a paratrooper was killed execution-style in another French city.
    Last edited by TotalMayhem; 15-03-2012 at 04:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    In reply to 5intheface at 33.

    Just an FYI for an international forum, the BBC iPlayer is not a reliable global source, It’s not available outside the UK, except on a very limited basis. Not your fault, not mine, just a fact, so it’s pointless debating that. Here’s what I get when I click
    Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only, but all BBC iPlayer Radio programmes are available to you. Why?
    Can I use BBC iPlayer outside the UK?

    Search iPlayer Questions
    [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/TONYCA%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
    Rights agreements mean that BBC iPlayer television programmes are only available to users to download or stream (Click to Play) in the UK. However, we are aware of demand for an international version. BBC Worldwide has recently launched the BBC iPlayer App for iPad and iPhone in various countries. Visit the BBC iPlayer (Global) YouTube channel for further information.

    Most radio programmes are available outside the UK in addition to podcasts, although sporting and other programmes may be subject to rights agreements.
    In addition, highlights from many of BBC News' programmes are available for viewers outside the UK, as is BBC Sport video content.
    I’ve noted earlier that so many have said so much on this issue that it is pointless now getting into a dispute about who said what when.

    In any event there was and maybe still is confusion between two separate events. The TBI that occurred as result of a non-combat vehicle accident in Iraq in 2010 that is well documented, and any separate breakdown that may have occurred immediately before the shooting.

    With respect to the casualty numbers changing from A to C over a short period that would not be unusual, but there has been no dispute since the figure of 16 was released.

    It’s now five days since the event and the shooter has been moved to Kuwait but his name hasn’t even been released, making it highly improbable that any new, not previously available medical records have since been released. Maybe some eyewitnesses saw him act strangely prior to the shooting and they or the BBC characterized that as a mental breakdown. Who knows? If anyone is to blame here it looks like the BBC. Several of the other links you provide also cite the BBC as their source. If a lot of people have one bad source, then a lot of people have bad information. Best I can tell BBC was relying on Quentin Sommerville in Kabul. Alternatively, it's entirely possible that a military spokesperson said something unofficial.

    The New York based AP wire that feeds thousands of news outlets around the world did not mention a mental breakdown, so your characterization of all western media jumping on that bandwagon is a bit parochial, and AP disclosed how it arrived at its casualty figure, by citing people who said 16 had been buried. Muslims get them into the ground quickly.
    You say at #30 above.
    So, the spokesmen for the military knew the reasons for the bloodshed before they had assessed the bodycount. Now if that is not odd to you then I don't know what would be.

    And I think it goes without saying that announcing the reason for the killing before it could be possible to establish any facts is disrespectful to the dead and their families.

    Any further attempt to nit-pick on your part will simply beg questions about your motives.
    That is simply you making an unwarranted leap, from a report of mental breakdown, whether accurate or inaccurate, to you saying conclusively that the military spokesmen said he had a mental breakdown and that was the reason for the shooting. You have provided no evidence that any military spokesman said such. It looks much more like you wanting to see a conspiracy theory around every corner.

    You seem to have decided that in your opinion the military was disrespectful to the families. That’s fine. I just don’t hear anyone else making that case. The military generally leave civilian casualties to civilian authorities. It is simply naïve or unrealistic to hear breaking news report of this nature and interpret what you heard first up, as the final word, or as a justification for what occurred. The confusion may have more to do with your interpretive skills.

    The two military people you cite, or are cited in your links are not discussing mental breakdown, they are discussing casualty figures. If you’d even read your own source, he refers specifically to initial reports.
    "It was a shooting incident involving multiple civilians wounded," said the (ISAF)spokesman, Captain Justin Brockhoff, adding that there were no initial reports of deaths in the attack which took place on Sunday.
    Only one of the links you provide has reference to a military spokesman, and that is instructing journalists to contact the Afghan Ministry of the Interior for updated casualty figures. The following is at your Khamma link.
    ISAF officials said, U.S. Forces-Afghanistan (USFOR-A), in cooperation with Afghan authorities, will investigate this incident and release additional information as appropriate.

    The source did not disclose further information regarding the incident and those Afghans who suffered from the incident saying, “Requests for information regarding Afghan casualties should be referred to the Ministry of Interior.”

    In the meantime provincial governor for southern Kandahar province Dr. Toryalai Weesa said, at least 10 people were killed and 5 others were wounded after a US soldier opened fire on the Afghan civilians.
    So, if you have bad information, it seems likely you got it from the BBC. Some month’s back I started a thread in media titled Has the BBC Gone to Hell in a Handcart?

    I am not attempting to make anything sinister. I asked a polite question about what appeared to be some confusion, and sought an explanation. I got a Dictatorial type “brook no dissent” reply that said if I “nit-picked” further, (your word, not mine), my motives would be suspect. That’s a polite way of saying shut up. Such a statement indicates concern as much about the detail of what I might say in the future, as the substance of what I might say, which you obviously have no way of knowing. As such it is an attempt at a prior restraint on speech. On reflection, on an anonymous forum such as this, that is kinda sinister, or creepy, or slimy, or all three.
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    In reply to 5intheface at 33.

    Just an FYI for an international forum, the BBC iPlayer is not a reliable global source, It’s not available outside the UK, except on a very limited basis. Not your fault, not mine, just a fact, so it’s pointless debating that. Here’s what I get when I click.
    That's about as far as I'm likely to go Count, what utter crap.

    I stated that the first reports gave the death count lower, (9 was the first I heard but 3 before that and only injuries prior to that) and that these first reports gave the reason for the shooting as being a mental breakdown by the soldier.

    You decided to deny this was the case and to insinuate that I had made it up (out of thin air I believe you said)

    I provide you with links upon links which prove exactly what I said to be the case and the best you can do is claim you can't access the BBC and that they are unreliable too.

    Far from an Irish Republican's job to defend the BBC but they gave the same ISAF source as every other news outlet so I presume they are all unreliable too? It matters not to my argument if everything on the BBC is a lie, I only repeated what they reported. It was the same thing on ITN, SKY and I'd imagine all the other European outlets who reported what ISAF told them.

    As for the iplayer, are you seriously suggesting that you can't get around that simple access difficulty? I'm sure if you really wanted you could.

    Alternatively, you could ask anyone who has access to look at the clip and confirm exactly what I said or maybe someone else on this forum with access could have a look and confirm what I have claimed. The truth is I don't think (for whatever motive) you want to access it as you know you're accusations will be proven totally wrong.
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    As such it is an attempt at a prior restraint on speech. On reflection, on an anonymous forum such as this, that is kinda sinister, or creepy, or slimy, or all three.
    Fail!

    You are the one came after me disputing the veracity of my claims but suddenly, when given bundles of proof you don't want to go over the details...convenient that!

    And then, surprise surprise! You want to go into the details of the links? Strange behaviour given that I stressed how there were dozens to choose from and I'd just supplied a sample.

    It matters not how many had military spokesmen, only one would be enough to prove the simple and very civil claim I initially made.

    I know the rising casualty figure would not be unusual, of course it's the norm but (as well you know) my point was that the medical condition of the killer was announced before the number of dead was clear. You appear to be backing that claim now which begs the question, just what part of what I said do you disagree with?

    Sinister, creepy, slimy? Well done. You think that will cause me to let you off with making a horse's ass of an argument? No chance, you sniffed anti-US sentiment so you waded in without bothering to actually read what I said.
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    US service memvers who are stationed abroad, even in allied countries, can't even be tried for motoring offences, never mind mass murder.

    Totally OT: I just read that 3 French paratroopers have been murdered in a drive-by shooting in Southern France, only last week a paratrooper was killed execution-style in another French city.
    Well, that makes a change from Guantanamo, doesn't it. Suppose i shouldn't judge until they've actually tried and sentenced the guy, but.....

    Any motives posited for the French shootings? seems very weird...

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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    That's about as far as I'm likely to go Count, what utter crap.

    I stated that the first reports gave the death count lower, (9 was the first I heard but 3 before that and only injuries prior to that) and that these first reports gave the reason for the shooting as being a mental breakdown by the soldier.

    You decided to deny this was the case and to insinuate that I had made it up (out of thin air I believe you said)

    I provide you with links upon links which prove exactly what I said to be the case and the best you can do is claim you can't access the BBC and that they are unreliable too.

    Far from an Irish Republican's job to defend the BBC but they gave the same ISAF source as every other news outlet so I presume they are all unreliable too? It matters not to my argument if everything on the BBC is a lie, I only repeated what they reported. It was the same thing on ITN, SKY and I'd imagine all the other European outlets who reported what ISAF told them.

    As for the iplayer, are you seriously suggesting that you can't get around that simple access difficulty? I'm sure if you really wanted you could.

    Alternatively, you could ask anyone who has access to look at the clip and confirm exactly what I said or maybe someone else on this forum with access could have a look and confirm what I have claimed. The truth is I don't think (for whatever motive) you want to access it as you know you're accusations will be proven totally wrong.
    The only ISAF information I have is that which you provided, and I subsequently bolded above. It says almost the opposite of what you claim was said on the BBC. It plainly states that the ISAF did not provide any additional information beyond that reported. That’s your link, your citation, not mine. Here it is again.
    ISAF officials said, U.S. Forces-Afghanistan (USFOR-A), in cooperation with Afghan authorities, will investigate this incident and release additional information as appropriate. The source did not disclose further information regarding the incident and those Afghans who suffered from the incident saying, “Requests for information regarding Afghan casualties should be referred to the Ministry of Interior.”
    If you are as careless about other things as you are about your citations, well who knows what you might actually have heard……

    But if as you imply, the military were on Sunday attempting to close down speculation surrounding events by pinning the matter on a mental breakdown, don't you think the media would now be screaming for more information? I've seen an AP piece reporting but not confirming that illegal alcohol may have been found in his quarters. It’s in the NYT piece below. In fact I think that piece goes further and confirms it. There is also now below reportedly blimp video of the guy walking back to the base, laying down his weapon, and raising his hands.

    None of this precludes that he will eventually be diagnosed to have suffered a MB. There are lots of complaints here in the US that the military are being extremely slow releasing basic details such as his name. It’s been widely reported in the US that the shooter’s existing medical records show no sign of PTSD after the Iraq incident, which only serves to make the matter more confusing.

    It's immaterial to me whether you are pro or anti American. I assume the majority here lean or fall anti. I didn't need to "sniff" any anti Americanism, or anti Westernism, you conceded as much in your very next post, when you volunteered at 28 above, referring to your earlier post at 17, that
    “the time I mentioned was not intended to be an accurate chronology”.
    You said that, not me. I suppose we’ll all have to take that view with everything you say in future. It's still unclear how it was intended to be read, three hour, ten hour, or just metaphorically?— I only engage with others here on anti-US issues if I believe someone has made an error of fact. I keep sayin, people are entitled to their opinions, but not their facts.

    Here are the two AP articles carried by WaPo on Sunday. No mention of mental breakdown. That said, when anyone civilian or military kills sixteen civilians the issue of mental stability can never be far away.

    1: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...U4R_story.html

    2: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...C5R_story.html

    Here are the three latest pieces on March 16, from NYT, WaPo, and AP. Again, no mentions of mental breakdown.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/wo...er=rss&emc=rss

    http://ap.stripes.com/dynamic/storie...03-16-03-52-54

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...c=nl_headlines
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    The only ISAF information I have is that which you provided, and I subsequently bolded above. It says almost the opposite of what you claim was said on the BBC. It plainly states that the ISAF did not provide any additional information beyond that reported. That’s your link, your citation, not mine. Here it is again.
    If you are as careless about other things as you are about your citations, well who knows what you might actually have heard……

    But if as you imply, the military were on Sunday attempting to close down speculation surrounding events by pinning the matter on a mental breakdown, don't you think the media would now be screaming for more information? I've seen an AP piece reporting but not confirming that illegal alcohol may have been found in his quarters. It’s in the NYT piece below. In fact I think that piece goes further and confirms it. There is also now below reportedly blimp video of the guy walking back to the base, laying down his weapon, and raising his hands.

    None of this precludes that he will eventually be diagnosed to have suffered a MB. There are lots of complaints here in the US that the military are being extremely slow releasing basic details such as his name. It’s been widely reported in the US that the shooter’s existing medical records show no sign of PTSD after the Iraq incident, which only serves to make the matter more confusing.

    It's immaterial to me whether you are pro or anti American. I assume the majority here lean or fall anti. I didn't need to "sniff" any anti Americanism, or anti Westernism, you conceded as much in your very next post, when you volunteered at 28 above, referring to your earlier post at 17, that You said that, not me. I suppose we’ll all have to take that view with everything you say in future. It's still unclear how it was intended to be read, three hour, ten hour, or just metaphorically?— I only engage with others here on anti-US issues if I believe someone has made an error of fact. I keep sayin, people are entitled to their opinions, but not their facts.

    Here are the two AP articles carried by WaPo on Sunday. No mention of mental breakdown. That said, when anyone civilian or military kills sixteen civilians the issue of mental stability can never be far away.

    1: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...U4R_story.html

    2: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...C5R_story.html

    Here are the three latest pieces on March 16, from NYT, WaPo, and AP. Again, no mentions of mental breakdown.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/wo...er=rss&emc=rss

    http://ap.stripes.com/dynamic/storie...03-16-03-52-54

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...c=nl_headlines
    It's just pure comedy now count, I've made it as simple as I can for you and your response to me providing link after link which prove what I said to be correct is to provide some other links which say something else.

    I'm not saying that any particular report was correct or incorrect, only that the reports happened as I claimed, which the clearly did. You repeated over and over that they didn't and that I made them up, now could you please acknowledge that what I said was an accurate report of news bulletins and stop introducing red herrings to cover your very obvious mistake.

    Here is a synopsis;

    I said in post 17 that I found it bemusing that within an hour every western media outlet was reporting medical assessments of the killer and wondered how they knew. They were all reporting that the info came from ISAF.

    You seemed to take exception to this claiming I was wrong and that there were no reports of a breakdown until Sunday evening. (post 21)

    In post 28, I reiterated what I heard and when I heard it but again you objected to that in the following post so in post 30 I added that we knew about the breakdown before we had the bodycount.

    In post 31 you went off the rails claiming there was no incomplete bodycount and that (for some reason) The Guardian article from 7 hours later with no mention of breakdown should be accepted as the benchmark. Very odd logic.

    From that you lurch into scattergun attacks on me accusing me of making the reports up, snide comments about the media I was quoting and then a baseless assumption that my comments were political. (On a political forum too )

    Post 33 is the killer; I give you a link to a video of the BBC's news from 9am Sunday morning (by your calculation an hour and a half after the incident) which gives the bodycount as 3 and quotes an ISAF spokesman saying the soldier had suffered a breakdown.

    Your response? To claim the BBC's iplayer is not a reliable media source. You're right, it's an iplayer which repeats programmes from across the BBC including, in this case, the news headlines from the BBC. I go on to supply you with a whole host of links reporting a variety of casualty figures from throughout the day but all reporting the mental state of the gunman.

    At this point you choose to criticize the content of the links. I don't give a stuff what the links claim, only that they clearly show that the first reports did not say 16 had died as you claimed.

    When all else fails and you have nowhere else to turn, you got hissy with accusations that I was sinister, creepy and slimy. And when that failed, this was your next effort, go through links which prove what I said to be correct and quote sections against me as if I had written the piece. Somehow you think this is an argument against me?

    I think you give yourself away with your claim that you only engage with people here on anti-US topics to set them straight.

    What is anti-US about pointing out one's surprise at the haste of medical assessment?

    And finally you revert to links which give the total as 16 and don't mention any breakdown. Many of them from today wtf? What does that prove? Certainly not that other earlier reports said something quite different but I'm guessing that no matter how many times I point these links out to you, you are going to stick your head in the sand and deny what is on the screen in front of you.
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    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    It's just pure comedy now count, I've made it as simple as I can for you and your response to me providing link after link which prove what I said to be correct is to provide some other links which say something else.

    I'm not saying that any particular report was correct or incorrect, only that the reports happened as I claimed, which the clearly did. You repeated over and over that they didn't and that I made them up, now could you please acknowledge that what I said was an accurate report of news bulletins and stop introducing red herrings to cover your very obvious mistake.

    Here is a synopsis;

    I said in post 17 that I found it bemusing that within an hour every western media outlet was reporting medical assessments of the killer and wondered how they knew. They were all reporting that the info came from ISAF.

    You seemed to take exception to this claiming I was wrong and that there were no reports of a breakdown until Sunday evening. (post 21)

    In post 28, I reiterated what I heard and when I heard it but again you objected to that in the following post so in post 30 I added that we knew about the breakdown before we had the bodycount.

    In post 31 you went off the rails claiming there was no incomplete bodycount and that (for some reason) The Guardian article from 7 hours later with no mention of breakdown should be accepted as the benchmark. Very odd logic.

    From that you lurch into scattergun attacks on me accusing me of making the reports up, snide comments about the media I was quoting and then a baseless assumption that my comments were political. (On a political forum too )

    Post 33 is the killer; I give you a link to a video of the BBC's news from 9am Sunday morning (by your calculation an hour and a half after the incident) which gives the bodycount as 3 and quotes an ISAF spokesman saying the soldier had suffered a breakdown.

    Your response? To claim the BBC's iplayer is not a reliable media source. You're right, it's an iplayer which repeats programmes from across the BBC including, in this case, the news headlines from the BBC. I go on to supply you with a whole host of links reporting a variety of casualty figures from throughout the day but all reporting the mental state of the gunman.

    At this point you choose to criticize the content of the links. I don't give a stuff what the links claim, only that they clearly show that the first reports did not say 16 had died as you claimed.

    When all else fails and you have nowhere else to turn, you got hissy with accusations that I was sinister, creepy and slimy. And when that failed, this was your next effort, go through links which prove what I said to be correct and quote sections against me as if I had written the piece. Somehow you think this is an argument against me?

    I think you give yourself away with your claim that you only engage with people here on anti-US topics to set them straight.

    What is anti-US about pointing out one's surprise at the haste of medical assessment?

    And finally you revert to links which give the total as 16 and don't mention any breakdown. Many of them from today wtf? What does that prove? Certainly not that other earlier reports said something quite different but I'm guessing that no matter how many times I point these links out to you, you are going to stick your head in the sand and deny what is on the screen in front of you.
    The guy has just been named.....Robert Bales......medical assessment to follow when the medics have completed their work.

    I see you were unable to find any link that works to support your claim that:
    within an hour of the first reports of this incident, every major western media outlet was stating that the soldier had suffered some mental breakdown as fact.
    Hard to reconcile that above with this below:

    Actually, as you are probably only too aware, the time I mentioned was not intended to be an accurate chronology. The medical assessment came at the same time as the first reports of the incident reached here, when you heard is of little interest.
    and this:

    I
    'm not saying that any particular report was correct or incorrect, only that the reports happened as I claimed, which the clearly did.
    But you just admitted that they didn't happen as you initially claimed. So which was it?

    I'll bet if you scour the internet high and low you won't find a medical report that has been updated since the event. It's much more likely that if you heard anything at all about his medical condition, it related to his Iraq experience and you simply misunderstood what you heard.

    It’s people like you, making statements you later admit were intended to mislead, when you’re challenged on it, who give the internet a bad name. It’s people like you who spur people like Sean Sherlock and other government officials to enact restrictive legislation that is burdensome for the rest of society.

    Separately, there are new reports of possible medical problems at the guy's home base.
    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/globa...nt-kill/49978/
    Post traumatic stress disorder, brain injury The solider had been hurt twice while serving in Iraq, which has led many to speculate that his traumatic brain injury (TBI) or PTSD could be a factor. He suffered a mild traumatic brain injury from either hitting his head on the hatch of a vehicle or in a some sort of car accident, according to U.S. officials. He also suffered an injury resulting in the loss of part of his foot. While there's no indication he was diagnosed with PTSD, he was diagnosed with TBI. Wired's Katie Drummond notes that it would be "downright reductionist" to suggests that TBI or PTSD sufferers will commit homicide "but scientists have linked brain trauma to some violent episodes." She takes a look at some of the scholarship:

    UPDATED: Joint Base Lewis-McChord, where the accused soldier was treated for TBI before being deployed to Afghanistan, has recently been implicated in an investigation over misdiagnosed PTSD cases. Again, officials haven’t stated whether soldier in particular had been diagnosed with PTSD at any point during enlistment. But as reported in the Washington Post today, Army investigators are currently poring over thousands of cases to see whether soldiers with PTSD at Lewis-McChord were diagnosed with a lesser ailment (like personality disorder). Already, the medical diagnoses of 285 soldiers will be re-evaluated by doctors.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    6,105

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Bales, 38, was deployed to Afghanistan this past December with the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment of the 3rd Stryker Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, which is based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, south of Seattle.

    Last year, also in March, another soldier of the Stryker Brigade was sentenced to twenty four years in prison for killing three Afghan civilians. Jeremy Morlock from the 5th Stryker Brigade, along with five of his fellow soldiers, were brought to trial for a similar incident in Afghanistan over killings that occurred between January and May 2010. A military tribunal charged the soldiers with killing civilians for fun, dismembering the bodies before taking photos of them, and keeping human bones as wartime souvenirs.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

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