Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 183

Thread: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granny Madden's
    Posts
    6,140

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Found it bemusing how within an hour of the first reports of this incident, every major western media outlet was stating that the soldier had suffered some mental breakdown as fact. Where did they get this specific medical information from?
    http://ancruiskeenlawnmower.wordpress.com/

    If dreams were lightning, thunder was desire, this whole place would have burned down, a long time ago.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,438

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    Found it bemusing how within an hour of the first reports of this incident, every major western media outlet was stating that the soldier had suffered some mental breakdown as fact. Where did they get this specific medical information from?
    Press release written before he left the barracks ?

    For once in his life Karzai made a good point - the the US does not accept recruits who are mentally unstable.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Out of my mind
    Posts
    12,138

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    I heard today that the Afghan parliament want to put him on trial in Afghanistan. Good luck with that, maybe someone should tell them that US service members are well protected from foreign or international jurisdictions. Which is the reason why Lt. Calley is enjoying the Californian sun rather than rotting in some Vietnamese dungeon.
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    7,649

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The "urination" video (was anyone ever arrested?), followed by Koran burning, followed by this awful mass murder, is at least open to question as a concerted attempt to provoke a reaction and thus justify a continued US presence in Afghanistan.
    CF, only you could arrive at that conclusion. Talk in the US is that if anything, the shootings may speed up the withdrawal. Current plans hope to move from 110,000 last September, to 68,000 this September, with all combat missions ceasing by mid 2013. All troops bar 5-10,000 out by the end of 2014. Military wants to keep as many as possible there until the end and take them out in one big swoop. Joe Biden is arguing for a stepped withdrawal, 5-10,000 at a time.

    http://nationaljournal.com/nationals...d=freehplead_1
    One thing is certain, however. The military justice system is a slow-moving bureaucracy with multiple steps that have to take place before a full trial can even take place. Any subsequent conviction and sentence can then be appealed in both military and civilian courts.
    “This case will take years, without question,” said Eugene Fidell, who teaches military justice at the Yale University Law School.
    That means the suspect won’t be convicted or exonerated until long after U.S. troops are slated to leave Afghanistan. Justice for the dead Afghans, if it comes at all, won’t come anytime soon.
    Even Santorum is Sorry Now

    http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2...ays-afghan.php
    Republicans love to mock President Obama as a serial apologist. Mitt Romney's biography is called "No Apology.'' Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich both chided President Obama late last month for apologizing for the burning of Korans at a U.S. military base. "I think it shows weakness,'' Santorum said.

    But Saturday's killings of 16 Afghan civilians, allegedly by a U.S. soldier, has even Santorum favoring a mea culpa.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    7,649

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    Found it bemusing how within an hour of the first reports of this incident, every major western media outlet was stating that the soldier had suffered some mental breakdown as fact. Where did they get this specific medical information from?
    Don't believe you're correct with the "one hour" time delay on the mental breakdown. Incident occurred early Saturday am Afghan, late Friday US. I did not hear about mental problems until late Sunday. In fact, the individual's name has not yet been released.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    7,649

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Press release written before he left the barracks ?

    For once in his life Karzai made a good point - the the US does not accept recruits who are mentally unstable.
    Guy was not a recent recruit, 11 years in, three tours in Iraq. Mental Breakdown occurred there. Probably should not have been sent to afghan.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Out of my mind
    Posts
    12,138

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Mental Breakdown occurred there.
    Is this assessment based on your medical expertise or USA Today?
    Thus all which you call Sin, Destruction—in brief, Evil—that is my true element.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    7,649

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by TotalMayhem View Post
    Is this assessment based on your medical expertise or USA Today?
    Several reliable sources NPR, PBS, NYT, WaPo, etc are reporting he suffered a mild form of “Traumatic Brain Injury” TBI, as the result of a non-combat vehicle accident in Iraq in 2010. But over 100,000 have been so diagnosed, and at this point there is neither a claim nor counter claim that the events are linked. Here are some of this morning’s emails on the topic.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z1
    Military investigators were combing through a U.S. Army sergeant’s personnel and medical records Monday to determine what might have caused him to slip away from his base in southern Afghanistan and allegedly massacre 16 sleeping villagers, most of them women and children, in the black of night.
    U.S. commanders said they think the shooter acted alone in Sunday’s rampage in the rural Panjwai district of Kandahar province. But they were struggling to deduce a motive for the attack, which has prompted outrage among Afghan officials and inflamed an already strained relationship between Washington and Kabul.

    The suspect, a trained sniper, received a diagnosis of traumatic brain injury after sustaining a head injury in Iraq during a vehicle rollover in 2010, two U.S. military officials said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive details of the case. The soldier was subsequently declared fit for duty, the officials said.

    Other U.S. military officials said they were working quickly to build a case against the suspect but declined to identify him until charges could be filed. They described him as a married, 38-year-old staff sergeant with two children who joined the Army 11 years ago. They said he had served three tours of duty in Iraq and deployed to Afghanistan for the first time in December
    “The evidence at this point, both in terms of observations and reports and interviews, leads us to believe that he acted as an individual,” Marine Gen. John R. Allen, the commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, told CNN. “We’re going to do a thorough investigation. We’re going to hold this individual accountable.”
    GUNFIRE, PROTESTS -- Taliban militants opened fire Tuesday on an Afghan government delegation visiting a village where Sunday's shooting rampage took place, CBS News reports this morning.
    Meanwhile, hundreds of students in eastern Afghanistan reportedly staged a protest, shouting slogans like "Death to America!" Some carried a banner calling for a public trial for the alleged shooter, while others burned an effigy of Obama. http://bit.ly/ywazwO

    TWO STORYLINES EMERGING -- For Obama, Romney and top Pentagon brass, Sunday's killings are an isolated event, one that won't alter the current mission plan.
    The president said the incident makes him "more determined to make sure that we're getting our troops home," but that we must avoid "a rush for the exits."
    Romney, for his part, said on Fox News the "actions of a deranged person are not going to shape American foreign policy."

    BUT FOR SANTORUM, GINGRICH AND MUCH OF THE NEWS MEDIA, the shooting spree calls into question the current exit strategy.
    Santorum said on the "Today" show that "any time you have such a shocking development I think it's important to take a look and see what the situation is and whether it's possible to continue on."
    He added: "We have to make the decision to make a full commitment, which this president has not done, or we have to decide to get out and probably get out sooner."

    ON THE HILL, Sunday's shootings, along with public fatigue over the war, "showed no signs Monday of denting Republican insistence in Congress that American troops should remain in the troubled country until a scheduled 2014 withdrawal," POLITICO's Seung Min Kim reports. Likewise, the battle lines remain unchanged: Republicans McKeon and Jon Kyl have reiterated their view that the military needs more time to succeed, while Democrats Adam Smith and Rick Larsen said recent events bolster their call for an accelerated withdrawal. More here. http://politi.co/wSzwqD

    WHO'S RIGHT? Conditions in Afghanistan will bear out the answer. Looking for clues, Al-Jazeera caught up with locals on the ground in Kabul and asked for their thoughts on the massacre and its potential aftermath.
    "I would imagine that the shooter had an illness," says Sayed Yousef, a cab driver.
    "Whatever the outcomes -- protests or otherwise -- it won't be limited to just the south. It will engulf the whole country," says Qais, a pharmacist.
    If the U.S. forces leave the country, "a civil war is possible, but everything is under the control of the Americans," says Ali, a shop keeper. More reaction here. http://aje.me/wOdn15

    PTSD? One of the questions driving the day will be whether the alleged shooter was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder -- and whether he should have been deemed fit for duty. CNN's Security Clearance: "The soldier was injured in a vehicle rollover while in Iraq in 2010, according to the official. The official described it as a non-combat rollover. He was diagnosed with Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) but was found fit for duty. His family has been moved on to Joint Base Lewis-McChord for their safety, the official said." http://bit.ly/xTIMtF

    SPEED READ --
    -- The New York Times, "U.S. officials debate speeding Afghan pullout," by Helene Cooper and Eric Schmitt: "At least three options are now under consideration, according to officials at the White House, the Pentagon and the State Department. One plan, backed by Thomas E. Donilon, the national security adviser, would be to announce that at least 10,000 more troops would come home by the end of December, and then 10,000 to 20,000 more by June 2013. ... Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. has been pushing for a bigger withdrawal that would reduce the bulk of the troops around the same time the mission shifts to a support role, leaving behind Special Operations teams to conduct targeted raids." http://nyti.ms/zw4oMg
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,438

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    It would be most unusual for a brain trauma to result in homicidal behaviour. Half the country here would be at it, between hurling, Saturday night fights and motor crashes.

    A UK citizen, aged 19, has been arrested for making a Face Book post pointing out the disproportionate press attention for the British soldiers recently killed, as opposed to the civilian victims of this atrocity.



    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...m_medium=email

  10. #25
    Kev Bar Guest

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The "urination" video (was anyone ever arrested?), followed by Koran burning, followed by this awful mass murder, is at least open to question as a concerted attempt to provoke a reaction and thus justify a continued US presence in Afghanistan.

    Equally one could posit that it is a concerted attempt to provoke a reaction and both justify and hasten an exit.

    Generally provoking a reactions which kill grunts weakens, not solidifies, the grounds for the troops being there in the first place.


    A UK citizen, aged 19, has been arrested for making a Face Book post pointing out the disproportionate press attention for the British soldiers recently killed, as opposed to the civilian victims of this atrocity.
    That is pretty sinister.
    Last edited by Kev Bar; 13-03-2012 at 04:17 PM.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,438

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Bar View Post
    Equally one could posit that it is a concerted attempt to provoke a reaction and both justify and hasten an exit.

    Generally provoking a reactions which kill grunts weakens, not solidifies, the grounds for the troops being there in the first place.

    That is pretty sinister.
    Could be used to justify anything and everything, I agree.

    Yes, it is sinister. The UK is sliding towards being a police state. Basic freedoms of speech are not there as there is no written constitution to protect citizens' rights.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granny Madden's
    Posts
    6,140

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Don't believe you're correct with the "one hour" time delay on the mental breakdown. Incident occurred early Saturday am Afghan, late Friday US. I did not hear about mental problems until late Sunday. In fact, the individual's name has not yet been released.
    Actually, as you are probably only too aware, the time I mentioned was not intended to be an accurate chronology. The medical assessment came at the same time as the first reports of the incident reached here, when you heard is of little interest.

    It may transpire that the individual did indeed suffer a breakdown but if you don't object, I will leave any decision on that until there has been a reasonable time for investigation rather than taking his superiors' kneejerk, and it must be said, disrespectful word on what happened.

    Have a little experience of spur of the moment, military claims.
    http://ancruiskeenlawnmower.wordpress.com/

    If dreams were lightning, thunder was desire, this whole place would have burned down, a long time ago.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    7,649

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    Actually, as you are probably only too aware, the time I mentioned was not intended to be an accurate chronology. The medical assessment came at the same time as the first reports of the incident reached here, when you heard is of little interest.

    It may transpire that the individual did indeed suffer a breakdown but if you don't object, I will leave any decision on that until there has been a reasonable time for investigation rather than taking his superiors' kneejerk, and it must be said, disrespectful word on what happened.

    Have a little experience of spur of the moment, military claims.
    If when I heard it “is of little interest” that’s fine, but exactly the same applies to when you heard it also, only more so, because you raised the issue of timing. Can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t say that when I heard is unimportant, but when you heard it is important. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; no-one is entitled to their own facts.

    You’ll have to explain to me what specifically you found “disrespectful” about what was said by whom. A lot has been said by a lot of people, and I’m simply unaware of any controversy about anything any one in the military has said.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granny Madden's
    Posts
    6,140

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    If when I heard it “is of little interest” that’s fine, but exactly the same applies to when you heard it also, only more so, because you raised the issue of timing. Can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t say that when I heard is unimportant, but when you heard it is important. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; no-one is entitled to their own facts.

    You’ll have to explain to me what specifically you found “disrespectful” about what was said by whom. A lot has been said by a lot of people, and I’m simply unaware of any controversy about anything any one in the military has said.
    It's really very straightforward, when the first reports came through over here as 'breaking news', they contained the claim that the soldier had suffered a mental breakdown. At that point, they were saying the number of dead was 9.

    So, the spokesmen for the military knew the reasons for the bloodshed before they had assessed the bodycount. Now if that is not odd to you then I don't know what would be.

    And I think it goes without saying that announcing the reason for the killing before it could be possible to establish any facts is disrespectful to the dead and their families.

    Any further attempt to nit-pick on your part will simply beg questions about your motives.
    http://ancruiskeenlawnmower.wordpress.com/

    If dreams were lightning, thunder was desire, this whole place would have burned down, a long time ago.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    7,649

    Default Re: Obama's Afghanistan Strategy Falling Apart & CiA running 3,000 Assassins

    Quote Originally Posted by 5intheface View Post
    It's really very straightforward, when the first reports came through over here as 'breaking news', they contained the claim that the soldier had suffered a mental breakdown. At that point, they were saying the number of dead was 9.

    So, the spokesmen for the military knew the reasons for the bloodshed before they had assessed the bodycount. Now if that is not odd to you then I don't know what would be.

    And I think it goes without saying that announcing the reason for the killing before it could be possible to establish any facts is disrespectful to the dead and their families.

    Any further attempt to nit-pick on your part will simply beg questions about your motives.
    First up, I made a mistake above when I said the shootings occurred Friday night-Saturday morning Afghan time. I was Saturday night-Sunday morning. My apologies.
    Now I’ll give you some nit picking.

    I don’t know which “breaking news” reports you are referring to, and I likely didn’t see them so it’s pointless debating that. But I will note this, the time stamp on the Guardian piece cited by TM is 10.48 am EDT, or 2.48pm UK. TM had it up here one hour later, and explicitly stated 16 dead. The Guardian piece also states 16 dead, and notes that the event took place after 3.00 am Afghan, or 7.30am UK. Guardian was reporting 16 dead seven hours after the event, but makes no mention of any reports of mental breakdown by military. Guardian and US sources WaPo etc cite AP with breaking the story. I don’t know where you got your figure of nine dead, and until I know that I’ll treat your claim of military stating mental breakdown as the cause, that early in the story, with equal suspicion. The Guardian article says specifically:
    The coalition's deputy commander, Adrian Bradshaw, acknowledged there had been deaths, although he did not give a number.
    Photographers at the burials saw the bodies of at least 15 bodies riddled with bullets. Halim put the death toll at 16, with others who were injured receiving treatment in a Nato military hospital.
    Halim and another man from the village, Haji Satar Khan, said four people from the family of Fahed Jan, and one child from another family died in addition to the 11 members of Wazir's family.
    So, I’m left scratching my head wondering how you could find “disrespectful” something that apparently wasn’t said. Your story simply doesn’t fit the timeline, and I wonder if you just made it up out of thin air to support your political views.

    You could help solve this mystery by telling us when and where you first heard the news of nine dead. BBC, Al Jaz, Skibereen Eagle, The Onion?

    Beyond that, I’d suggest you really need to get your self some better news sources, or maybe just click the links and follow the discussion.

    Oh, and one more thing, If you think you’re gonna bully me into silence by threatening to question my motives you got another thing comin. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised by that tactic from someone who chooses a moniker that is a synonym for violence. Any more mis-information from you could lead to questioning of………….. Or maybe you’d like to retract that statement?
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us